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Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

news.ycombinator.com

141–150 of 157 posts

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#141
post #87

I'd maybe agree if the issue was dealing with comment spam. The system kind of gives me the feeling of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I think it'll be much tougher to get to that 1000 karma threshold which will make sub 1000 users less likely to comment if their comments aren't actually getting posted. 1000+ users may also get bored of having to endorse other peoples comments. From what it sounds like i…

I suppose with 2.5k I'm one of the rich guys here. I would love to prevent what you describe as the rich getting richer, but the regulators will be regulated. If I don't do exactly as some superadmin wants, I'll be banned from comment approving myself. My only options seem to be, to put it bluntly, to become pg's bitch and do as the model requires, or get out.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#142
At first glance, I'm not a fan, but after thinking about it, I'm thinking it might help new users gain karma quicker if they are good citizens, which would help deal with some of my concerns.

Those with greater than 1000 karma will now have more of a reason to upvote comments, whereas before, they might have mildly found a comment not awful but not upvoted it because there was no reason to.

We'll see what happens.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#143

At first glance, I'm not a fan, but after thinking about it, I'm thinking it might help new users gain karma quicker if they are good citizens, which would help deal with some of my concerns. Those with greater than 1000 karma will now have more of a reason to upvote comments, whereas before, they might have mildly found a comment not awful but not upvoted it because there was no reason to. We'll see what happens.

However, it will prevent being able to post multiple comments in a burst (which is true of a lot of people - lunch break / etc). I think this will overwhelm that effect.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#144
With such a system in place, writing comments is not much fun. Even right now I wonder, whether someone is going to approve. I hope I conform to the common opinion with this comment, so others can read my thoughts.

Luckily this is not the only tech/startup forum on the web.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#145
post #15

Remember when a chorus said hiding comment scores would be the end of HN?

Comment scores are actually irrelevant. The relative score is all that matters, and a comment's position on the page tells you all you need to know.

To me, there is a major difference between this:

  --comment A (1000 karma)
  --comment B (2 karma)
  --comment C (1 karma)
and this:

  --comment A (1000 karma)
  --comment B (999 karma)
  --comment C (1 karma)
Consider if A and B have opposing opinions.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#146
Honestly, I think its great that your community thinks so fucking highly of itself that its a privilege to comment on the self absorbed drivel that this board contains. Seriously if you think this place is so fucking special you have mental issues, fuck you and fuck your comment system

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#147

FYI -- Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments @ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7445761

Why not pending delete instead of pending acceptance? Any comment is posted immediately but can be marked inappropriate by >1000 users within a certain (short) time span. If the comment reaches an inappropriateness threshold within that span it's deleted automatically.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#148
post #132
post #116

I do not think this is a good idea. I've already looked through the list of noobcomments and without any context, I have no interest in looking to see if they are relevant or not. The issue with the current model is that all I see is a list of green comments. What articles are they related to, what other discussions are they replying to? Realize my comments come from the perspective of someone with 8600+ karma. I won…

Maybe I misunderstood the system (and with no way of checkin it out myself, having below 1000 karma myself), but I thought users with 1000+ karma would see all comments appear directly on each post and could then decide whether they are "worthy" or not to be shown to everyone. Thinking about this again I realize that would kind of defeat the whole idea as established users would still see all the "bad" comments, mayb…

Ah you are right. I re-read pg's original post and was confused the first time.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#149
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MetaFilter does that, and doesn't seem to have problems with quality of discourse. Of course, HN as it stands doesn't seem to have significant problems with quality of discourse, either, so I'm not sure that HN needs either solution; discussion here is already far superior to what you find on the vast majority of sites.

> MetaFilter does that, and doesn't seem to have problems with quality of discourse. What also helps the level of discourse at Metafilter is moderation to the tune of showing up in threads, deleting comments, and saying "knock it off" when things get particularly bad.

Sure, but that's done on a case-by-case basis, when things actually do get out of hand; it's not a universal, preemptive moderation system that's built right into the structure of the site.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#150
When I first learned today about this change my knee jerk reaction was the same as with most people commenting on this---it will be horrible, it will enforce groupthink, it will stifle discussion, and so on. But after some thinking, I realized it's just a knee jerk.

The thing is, HN doesn't have a problem with rudeness or bad comments that existing voting can't solve (as far as I can see). But, I do think that HN has a problem with the amount of comments on popular submissions, and of a huge amount of comments which are nominally OK (i.e. not rude, not wrong, not trolling...) and therefore cannot in good conscience be downvoted, but whose information content is near 0. With low total amount of comments, this wouldn't be a problem because most of these kinds of comments are a consequence of there being a non-manageable amount of total comments for the speed at which content goes through HN---most people don't have the time to go through the whole lot and check what has been said/pointed out/asked, and that leads to a lot of redundancy. This is very exhausting to read through, and really is a problem of signal to noise ratio, but the "noise" on HN is not the stupid or the rude (those get blasted away quickly), it's just the well meaning, decent but redundant comment made because one has something to say but can't be bothered (rightfully so when there are 300+ comments already!) to check if it's been said already.

A recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7427542 This was just horrible! Comment after comment telling him the exact same thing (change your CV) with almost the exact same specific advices. I went through the whole thing because I was interested and wanted to see what people have to say about this, but I was completely exhausted at the end because there was so much redundancy.

Why do I think pg's plan with pending comments would improve this? The first order effect would probably be a dramatic decrease in number of comments. The second order effect would then be that it's much, much easier to go through the whole thing and see if there's any new information you can contribute to the topic, which, if we are sane people, will lead to a dramatic decrease in noise (redundancy) (I say "if we are sane" because I take it that a sane person won't repeat already stated ideas just for the sake of repeating).

This is why I'm currently strongly in favour of the way the idea was presented originally with some tweaks that have been mentioned in the original thread yesterday. I see now that it's off by default and only per item tree, thus only serving as a weapon against rudeness and flame wars. As I don't think HN has that problem so I don't see the point of the whole thing as it stands now. I would much rather if the original form was given a chance with the mentioned fixes and attentive parameter tweaking.

As for fears of "echo chambers" and such, I don't see that currently on HN and I'm willing to give people here the benefit of the doubt that they would in aggregate do the right thing. If, on the other hand the community is so bad to end up using this as a tool for censorship then I don't think it would be a shame to have it fall apart anyway. So I don't think there's anything to lose. Useful back and forth discussions would still be able to go on with parameters reasonably tuned.

Also, I notice that a lot of people mistakenly think that 1000+ karma means your posts get auto-approved. But that's not the case, it requires 10k+ karma! Realistically, most people will never reach that even with the system as it is now, so that's completely irrelevant. Users with 1000+ karma would not be in any particular commenting advantage if the proposed change went through.

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