Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments • Hacker News Board

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#641

Post by hkphooey » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:18 AM UTC

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #625

booruguru wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, and no offense intended, but hopefully not, since your comment is a good example of the problem this is trying to solve. It's unnecessarily angry. Do you seriously not understand the point that I was making? You're basically saying that my comment is unworthy of an audience...not because it was nonsensical or rude or offtopic or abusive...but merely because I wrote in an angry tone. My tone offended your deli…

I agree with thaumaturgy here; your comments are very emotionally charged for something as insignificant as a change to the moderation policy of a link aggregator's comment section. I hope that this new system will bring down the emotions that tend to run high in the comments. In your first comment, you've criticized change, ridiculed the site's look and feel, and provided an opinion that was astutely refuted by thau…

You want emotionally charged?

This new rule is F*ING STUPID!

We are humans, not robots!

If you agree and you have more than 1000 Karma points, please upvote and approve this message. Thank you.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#642

Post by nirnira » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:20 AM UTC

>That feel when Hacker News became an echo-chamber for the YC schmoozerati.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#643

Post by hkphooey » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:25 AM UTC

habosa wrote: post #440

I have ~1900 karma so I'll be one of the endorsers ... but I am not sure I want to be. I think this is a very aggressive change and one that puts too much power in the hands of people like me. Just because I have enough free time to sit around and rack up HN Karma doesn't mean I should control the speech of other, newer users. Also I think the delay caused by waiting for endorsements on comments will really kill a lo…

Disqus just turned off the ability to see how many people have downvoted a comment.

So now every comment will look positive and be re-affirming instead of challenging someone to think, "Hey, I agree with that comment, but hundreds of others have disagreed, maybe I should read the thread to see why people disagree, maybe there is something I should learn about."

There is too much gaming of comments. Let people speak freely, moderate for illegal stuff, and be done with it.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#644

Post by DanBC » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:28 AM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #334

tptacek wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just wondering if there's maybe an atypical gap between the time Patrick tends to post comments and the time those comments tend to soak up their comment, so that the endorsement delay could be an issue.

There will probably be a nonzero negative impact. Patrick and a couple of other users recently tag-team-assisted someone with a website problem in the middle of the night, and this new feature probably would have about killed that. I still think it's a net win though. A few of us with very broken sleep patterns can put a little more effort into checking comment threads.

There are enough people to assist in fixing a website, so there should be enough users to [endorse] posts?

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#645

Post by jgh » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:34 AM UTC

AaronFriel wrote: post #362

This is a poorly thought out, reactionary response to allegations of dreadful comment quality. 1. It doesn't solve any problems of group think, because if pg and the Y Combinator folks think the system is already tilted toward a certain group and set of beliefs - this now empowers them all as citizen moderators. 2. It further empowers this group by giving them the ability to remove other members of the group's abilit…

I have been a lurker and infrequent poster here for a number of years and have lately been feeling increasingly alienated from the HN community. I am not on "the in" by any means in startup culture or silicon valley (in fact, I live in Southern California). As somebody who very much feels on the outside looking in on the craziness that is silicon valley and the startup culture (although my entire career has been spent in startups) I feel like this move only serves to further alienate people like me.

I think that once I break the habit of typing "news.ycombinator.com" when I open a browser I won't miss this place very much.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#646

Post by acjohnson55 » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:38 AM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #197

acjohnson55 wrote: post #95

I honestly think the overall quality of comments is quite good on HN. Besides the quality of the articles (which is also top notch), it's a big reason why HN is a thrice daily part of my routine. The bigger issue is that nesting is a poor format for displaying comments, once a discussion gets large enough. I've been a part of the team revamping Huffington Post's discussion interface, and I think it's a great solution…

I agree about the nesting issue. But i hate the new HuffPo discussion interface because it breaks the reading flow. I think it is horrible to use. What would have been better is use the same system but without this horrible pop-up window.You can totally open/close a comment tree without having the feeling you are going to a new page just to see the comments. I think the way disqus works is a good compromise.It's perf…

Well, I should specify that I work for an agency that does work for HuffPost, so I don't make strategic decisions and can't represent their point of view. From a personal standpoint, I agree that there are definitely ways to improve upon what we've built. My point is just that nesting is broken, and that I'm all about alternatives.

I find Disqus great for content with only a small amount of commentary, but extremely unpleasant to use on articles that have more than say 400 comments (and CNN regularly has articles in the thousands of comments). At that point, if you're viewing either the oldest or most liked comments, it's damn near impossible to browse the comments that are directly on the article. I think even HN's low tech interface is better.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#647

Post by neolefty » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:39 AM UTC

tsycho wrote: post #198

waterlesscloud wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2b is not really an issue. Endorsing only the best of similar comments is a feature. You can remove your pending comment after some time. It may also have a second order "unintended" consequence over time- People would stop posting shallowly obvious responses, due to the negative feedback of never having them endorsed.

The problem is that people are being penalized for writing something completely reasonable because someone wrote something slightly better or wrote it first, even if they were unaware of the other comment existing at the time of posting. As a penalty, they will have to go back and delete their pending comment from whatever thread they were on, if they came back to HN after a break. cperciva's auto-purge or my auto-ac…

Is not being endorsed a penalty, or is it just neutral?

On one hand, it doesn't subtract from your karma, but on the other it may discourage you from posting in the future.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#648

Post by vacri » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:39 AM UTC

briantakita wrote: post #609

vacri wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, the downvote button is only supposed to be used for unproductive comments pg has previously stated that it's perfectly acceptable to use the downvote button as "I disagree".

Downvotes meaning "I disagree" contribute to groupthink, no?

I think the moderation system in use on HN is inferior to moderation systems seen on some forums as far back as the turn of the century. I am not a fan of it (see my profile page) and don't like it in the least.

I think it's better than having nothing at all (no up/down at all), but that's not saying much.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#649

Post by jgh » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:42 AM UTC

fotbr wrote: post #481

I don't comment often. I came here following the dice purchase of slashdot, and found a quality tech oriented site without too much crap. At the rate I (slowly) accumulate the imaginary internet points here, it will be the better part of a decade before I end up with the ability to "endorse" any other comments. I don't really care about that, except you're locking out those of us that don't have a following here, or…

I agree with you and share your concerns, as someone with similar posting habits.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#650

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 5:42 AM UTC

eogas wrote: post #97

This seems like a rather hostile change to an already hostile community. HN has never felt like a welcoming place to me, and I don't think this will help. Maybe PG prefers the community to be small, so he's trying to trim it down? Because I'm fairly certain this will drive users away, and not just the ones he wants to keep out. Please noble 1000+ers, free my humble comment from the depths of the low-karma peasants. F…

The goal of HN isn't to become large and popular. It's to be a useful forum for discussion. See the Guidelines and FAQ links on every HN page for more on this:

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

As for gaining points: given time and quality contributions (as well as winning the front-page lottery a time or two), it's possible to gain 1000 karma in a year or so, pretty easily, if you want to (and quite possibly faster). Which is as it should be: you need to make your bones.