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Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#71

Post by omegaham »

dperfect wrote: post #40
pg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. We'd be pretty stupid not to revert something that wasn't working. Plus in any case if you tweak parameters like the number of endorsements a comment needs and how much karma you need to endorse, you can approach current HN as closely as you want.

I'd venture to guess that the difference between a requirement of just 1 endorsement from users with karma >= 1 and the current HN is fairly significant (a downvote differs conceptually from a nonexistent endorsement), so you may not be able to approach it too closely. I suppose only time will tell though.

This is an excellent observation. It takes effort to downvote someone; it takes zero effort to ignore a pending post that doesn't meet whatever your standard is for endorsement.

Basically, it turns the system on its head; it's no longer "Bad posts will be removed," it's "Your posts will automatically be removed unless someone decides that they are good."

I'm actually really optimistic about this change; it will force people to be more civil if they actually want to participate. However, it will only work if lots of people are willing to put in the effort of endorsing quality posts.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#72

Post by jfoster »

jonesetc wrote: post #59
pg wrote: post #2

I suggest another option: wait to see what it's like.

Even if it's just a test, it seems a reasonable scenario that just the test will cause permanent damage. I understand trying to promote better discussion, but this system is downright unwelcoming to any newcomers. When I registered to comment I thought the downvote restrictions were odd and I was willing to try it out, but if this was in place I'd have closed the tab and never come back. Maybe subject-matter experts…

Can you elaborate on how a test might cause permanent damage? Keep in mind that it should be clear whether significant damage is occurring quite soon after it rolls out. (Eg. Whether comments are getting approved, rate of comments, etc.)

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#73

Post by jonesetc »

jfoster wrote: post #72
jonesetc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's just a test, it seems a reasonable scenario that just the test will cause permanent damage. I understand trying to promote better discussion, but this system is downright unwelcoming to any newcomers. When I registered to comment I thought the downvote restrictions were odd and I was willing to try it out, but if this was in place I'd have closed the tab and never come back. Maybe subject-matter experts…

Can you elaborate on how a test might cause permanent damage? Keep in mind that it should be clear whether significant damage is occurring quite soon after it rolls out. (Eg. Whether comments are getting approved, rate of comments, etc.)

I meant it to go along with the rest of the paragraph. I think you'll see people turn around at the door with this policy. I would have.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#75

Post by ddlatham »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #16

It's worth comparing this poll to the one about whether HN should display comment scores: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595605 Only 38.5% of users were in favor of comment scores being hidden, but it was decidedly a positive change for the site.

I disagree. With the scores visible I found it easier to pick out the best comments.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#76

Post by hayksaakian »

derefr wrote: post #54
hayksaakian wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comment scores are actually irrelevant. The relative score is all that matters, and a comment's position on the page tells you all you need to know.

Rank is only apparent when a comment has siblings. When two people are having a reply-to-reply back-and-forth debate, I'm usually left very curious to which side HN agrees with.

personally, i'd rather that be unknown to avoid encouraging hive-mindedness.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#78

Post by brudgers »

jonesetc wrote: post #59
pg wrote: post #2

I suggest another option: wait to see what it's like.

Even if it's just a test, it seems a reasonable scenario that just the test will cause permanent damage. I understand trying to promote better discussion, but this system is downright unwelcoming to any newcomers. When I registered to comment I thought the downvote restrictions were odd and I was willing to try it out, but if this was in place I'd have closed the tab and never come back. Maybe subject-matter experts…

HN is like EMACS not WordPad. It has a learning curve.To some extent, HN is unwelcoming to new comers by design. It filters out people who want to behave to the same standards as the rest of the internet.

To put it in perspective, your post would several standard deviations above the mean both in length and content on most sites. Would have written so thoughtfully and carefully a year ago?

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#79

Post by amjd »

jfoster wrote: post #72
jonesetc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's just a test, it seems a reasonable scenario that just the test will cause permanent damage. I understand trying to promote better discussion, but this system is downright unwelcoming to any newcomers. When I registered to comment I thought the downvote restrictions were odd and I was willing to try it out, but if this was in place I'd have closed the tab and never come back. Maybe subject-matter experts…

Can you elaborate on how a test might cause permanent damage? Keep in mind that it should be clear whether significant damage is occurring quite soon after it rolls out. (Eg. Whether comments are getting approved, rate of comments, etc.)

The thing is, this is a kind of change which makes it difficult to know the real impact since the users who would have a problem with it are the ones losing their voice (until a karma elite user intervenes, of course). That's one of the reasons most people are opposed to this.

Re: Poll: The new HN comment system – agree, disagree, or wait and see?

#80

Post by vinhboy »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #16

It's worth comparing this poll to the one about whether HN should display comment scores: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595605 Only 38.5% of users were in favor of comment scores being hidden, but it was decidedly a positive change for the site.

Jeebus. I been waiting SOOOO long for a chance to tell everyone how much I hate hidden comment karma. Here is my chance. Ok. I am done. Sorry I just had to vent.

Edit: Crap! my comment is pending... I guess I won't get to say it at all.

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