Comments get from pending to live by being endorsed by multiple HN users with over 1000 karma. By "multiple", does this literally mean 'by at least two', or by a fixed number that you may or may not want to divulge, or by some other more complicated factor? I think the answer to this will heavily impact the 'unpopular (but not bad) comment' concerns.
Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
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Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#3621. It doesn't solve any problems of group think, because if pg and the Y Combinator folks think the system is already tilted toward a certain group and set of beliefs - this now empowers them all as citizen moderators.
2. It further empowers this group by giving them the ability to remove other members of the group's ability to moderate comments.
3. It increases the "cost" of commenting far more than most other moderating proposals would. Not commenting on a popular post? Why bother. Continuing a conversation in replies? Again, why bother.
4. It had such a poor specification that cperciva found a critical flaw in the implementation details in mere minutes. If pending comments is an answer to a problem, then it was not the sort of answer that would have been approved by this comment system.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > It's bad enough that people are downvoted for contrarian opinions > That particular disease doesn't seem to have taken hold here yet. Comments that are downvoted below 1 more often are angry, abusive, trollish, or devoid of content. Some of the comments voted below 1 are, indeed -- but a more relevant metric to respond to that critic would be: How many well articulated contrarian opinion expressed on HN are voted…
Do you have any examples? This thread (and some other recent activity) notwithstanding, I'm not really active on HN anymore.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#364Someone who has a pending comment will have to wait till it goes live to post another. We're hoping that good comments will get endorsed so quickly that there won't be a noticeable delay. Is there some timeout? If not, commenting on a several-day-old thread will guarantee that you can never post another comment, since once threads drop off the front page it's not likely that many 1000+ karma users will even see those…
Hmm, trust cperciva to find the thing I'd overlooked. I'll add a pending page that collects pending comments. Maybe that will solve the problem.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think I like this idea quite a bit. I don't know how many users there are with >1000 karma, but will they be motivated to keep endorsing everyone else's pending posts? Sometimes good discussions do happen on quieter threads, or way down the list that the 1000+ users might not see. Well, I guess it really comes down to just how much (proper) endorsing ends up happening. One thing I like about HN is that it's open an…
If endorsing comments too hastily risks the loss of that privilege, but endorsing comments correctly has only a social benefit... I'll try to do my part, but I worry about the tragedy of the commons here. The current incentives may actively discourage endorsements.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#366I fear that this is going to have the effect of drowning out minority or contrary opinions, even those that are legitimate (non-trolling) and expressed in a respectful manner. Currently, the downvote button is only supposed to be used for unproductive comments - drivel, and the like. Of course, people use it to show their disagreement (even though that's not how it's meant to be used). As a result, people that post c…
Agreed. This will only work to increase the echo chamber that is HN. Any type of debate will now need to go through the HN elite. I really didn't have a problem with the current system, any obvious troll comments were always downvoted out of sight. I rather see any unapproved comment and make up my own mind on its "worthiness" instead of someone else.
At least every other day I see someone being downvoted into oblivion for espousing a contrary opinion, and while there is not enough upvotes to save that comment, I still kick one its way if the comment is thought out and posted in good faith.
My biggest concern is still about the overall amount of eyeballs moderating the new comments, and losing interesting or useful information. I almost think there should be a pending "downvote" to limit the number of times that people are reviewing a specific pending comment, so that if it is trash it dies and gets out of the way of newer pending comments worth reviewing, or maybe something where there are subgroups of pending comments so that you don't somehow languish in a low priority queue if no one looks at it, but instead get a chance at someone looking at it.
The 24 hour rule also is a bit sad because as far as I can tell, HN dies down a lot during the weekend, and some interesting articles come out that dont receive the attention they deserve. I imagine the same thing would happen with new comments.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#367Someone who has a pending comment will have to wait till it goes live to post another. We're hoping that good comments will get endorsed so quickly that there won't be a noticeable delay. Is there some timeout? If not, commenting on a several-day-old thread will guarantee that you can never post another comment, since once threads drop off the front page it's not likely that many 1000+ karma users will even see those…
Hmm, trust cperciva to find the thing I'd overlooked. I'll add a pending page that collects pending comments. Maybe that will solve the problem.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#3681) Maybe the "cannot submit a comment if you have an pending comment" should be a per thread thing, rather than for the whole site. I suspect a lot of people read in batches. They take a break and read a dozen new stories over the course of a few minutes. If the exclusion is site wide, and the endorsement rate does not turn out as high as you hope, that would in effect in many cases mean that they only get one commen…
It's only an issue if it takes a long time for comments to get endorsed, which we don't know yet. But if that is a problem it's easy to make the restriction per thread. I just wrote the simplest thing first.
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think one compromise could be to remove this restriction from users with > x karma. It's not ideal to me but it is something ...
It is, actually. Comments by users with over 10k karma go live immediately.
Given that karma is a function of votes from articles posted as well as net votes from comments made, is there a way to use the second but not the first for karma limits related to comments?
Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments
#370My may concern with this system: Sledgehammer meets tack. The comments on HN aren't perfect, but they're far from bad when compared to other sites of this nature. There has been a downwards trend most probably due to the increasing popularity of HN. A response is warranted. However, this system has the potential to silence a lot of high quality comments on any threads that aren't on the front-page for an extended per…
Number of HN submissions over 3 years: http://i.imgur.com/r9Ayvb1.png
Number of HN comments over 3 years: http://i.imgur.com/4FwglA8.png