Wouldn't businesses just raise prices to offset the basic income, rendering it useless?
It Is Time For Basic Income
141–150 of 761 posts
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#142US specific: * 2014 total US gov't spending: $6.3T (36.4% of GDP) * # of Americans: 314m (2012) * Cost to provide $10,000 per year to everyone: $3.14T * Current US military spending: $0.8T * Current US education spending: $1T * Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T * $4.94T vs $6.3T [1] http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/
> Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T
What's the point of this? Do you think all government spending except military and education is obsoleted by basic income?
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alaska has its Permanent Fund Dividend, which is a kind of basic income coming from state oil sales. How hard is it to get Alaskan citizenship?
Um, one small difference, you have to be a resident of Alaska for at least a year, intend to remain a permanent resident and not be absent more than 180 days without a valid reason. [1] [1]: http://pfd.alaska.gov/Eligibility/EligibilityRequirements
In what way is that a difference?
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Resource-managed economy" does not imply a centralized authority, which is where your snide rejoinder comes off the rails.
How the hell do you allocate resources with maximal efficiency, without either a central authority or trade? Maybe I'm just an old stick in the mud, but those two are "I tell you what you want" and "You tell me what you want", and I don't see the third option.
I don't think it matters which. We are potentially going to go from 7 billion people to 9 billion people. At the 7 billion mark we would need 5 planets worth of resources if everyone were to consume at the level Americans do, so where does that leave us is a few decades while the poorer nations are evolving at such a rapid pace? Ideally we get engineers and scientists to start with x amount of resources and x number of people then learn along the way.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#145If anything like basic income happens expect immigration to be halted and birthright citizenship grants to be ended. The value and meaning of citizenship will rapidly change and tolerance for outsiders taking a slice of the pie will rapidly plunge. I think there will be a lot of ramifications like this that most people probably aren't considering.
The swiss referendum for basic income also referred to "citizen" income as well, knowing full well that 20% of their population has immigrant status. Steal from the poor to feed the middle.
Steal from the poor to feed the middle.
Has served Europe well for the past fifty years or so.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#146Here's the thing: I believe that millions of years of evolution have baked into every living thing a deep need to work, and we'll feel bad if we don't (because for millions of years lazyness meant death). We need to struggle. Further, I think we need to bad times to help us recognize the good times and a basic income would do much to soften those bad times... I worry that Basic Income is in the long term practically…
> I believe that millions of years of evolution have baked into every living thing a deep need to work, and we'll feel bad if we don't (because for millions of years lazyness meant death). We need to struggle. I think there is a difference between "work" that fulfills our desire to dedicate time and effort toward challenging endeavors and "work" that creates sufficient net value to keep oneself alive (or in the case…
It's not like the economic incentive to work will be completely gone though. Presumably BI would be, at least to start, roughly the bare minimum required to survive. Any luxuries would still require earned income.
Also, given hedonic adaptation, humans are rarely content with any given level of luxury. While there are certainly negatives to that, it does mean that most (or at least many) people would continue to attempt to earn as much as possible even with a basic income.
Finally, the money does have to come from somewhere. I expect that the system would be designed so that it begins net neutral for the middle class. And I can't see most middle class people suddenly deciding to give up half their income just because there's suddenly a softer landing. For the rich, the effect would obviously be even less pronounced.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#147I am not at all an economist, but I wonder: if everyone had the same amount of fixed income (in addition to whatever else they made from their jobs), wouldn't there be continual inflation, rendering that money worthless? Wouldn't the fixed income become the new zero income? Also: How does Macdonalds work in this situation, if the fixed income "replaces" minimum wage. Does Macdonalds pay on top of this wage? Do they d…
> How does MacDonalds work? I'm not an economist either, but here's how I'd like to see the McDonalds example play out : Presumably, McD's pay folks on top of their basic income to entice people to work for them. Eventually, these wages get high enough (and robots become cheap enough / advanced enough) that it becomes cheaper to automate away those jobs. The gained productivity allows McDonald's prices to drop, and a…
What s great vision for the future.
Time will only tell.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#148US specific: * 2014 total US gov't spending: $6.3T (36.4% of GDP) * # of Americans: 314m (2012) * Cost to provide $10,000 per year to everyone: $3.14T * Current US military spending: $0.8T * Current US education spending: $1T * Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T * $4.94T vs $6.3T [1] http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/
> Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T What's the point of this? Do you think all government spending except military and education is obsoleted by basic income?
Basic income (replacing pensions, welfare, healthcare), military, education are the three most expensive government functions.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#149I am always wary of supporting a basic income guarantee. Although it sounds much better than the current welfare mess we have, the actual implementation will probably be an addition rather than a replacement.
The current mess is not only poorly implemented, it's based on false assumptions. We just need to stop pretending there's something wrong with people not being able to find a decent job, and stop punishing them.
You should also look at it from the other side: if I have a job that I work at 8-10 hours a day (and might not do if I didn't need the money), how am I "punishing" the other guy by not sharing the fruits of my labor with him for nothing in return?
EDIT: To put it another way: if I'm a productive worker and have a job, I am "rewarded" by working for a boss (taking orders from him/her), and having to turn over 35-50% of my income to government, to give it to others. If I were unemployed, I'd be "punished" by receiving welfare, food stamps and a bunch of other stuff, without having to contribute in any way to society.
Re: It Is Time For Basic Income
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
If a person were getting 10x the amount a person gets on unemployment + food stamps, you might be able to call that basic income. Please show us all how a person living in a US city could survive on food stamps, ethana.
this guy: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568109/Unemployed-b...
Aside from the fact that the Daily Mail is a tabloid which makes its money primarily from inflaming right-wing sensibilities while misreporting or fabricating stories, this seems like a particularly ludicrous assertion considering that it would imply a far higher rate of welfare fraud than actually happens.
Could you tell us how much money it's possible to claim from the system, and how much a realistic minimal standard of living might actually be? If you do your research honestly, you might find it illuminating.