Live data from Hacker News

What You Can't Say (2004)

paulgraham.com

81–90 of 308 posts

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#81
This article actually makes me think of something I first liked about hacker news: I noticed that posts which went against widely accepted views tended to be up-voted.

Seriously, even now when I'm writing something people like it'll generally ok on any site. If I write something I think is well founded and people will not agree with, it'll probably do better on hacker news.

I guess that reminds me to read and up-vote things that I didn't initially like...

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#82
post #55
post #30

"Do you have any opinions that you would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your peers?" I think this test is fascinating when applied to the Musk vs. Gates debate from yesterday. How taboo is it to say forget charity? I know I feel uncomfortable with saying: 'forget the poor, we can fix them after we've figured out how to create a sustainable form of first world living' and yet that seems like a far more…

I had this thought this morning, though of a slightly different tone. The radio talking head mentioned that they were going to interview an anti-civilizationist, someone who apparently thinks that developed society is unsustainable and will be the end of us all. Apparently he advocates for a return to pre-civilization? I immediately thought, "We need to be able to leap forward, not backward. If this involves some sac…

2000 yeas ago, the Earth population was ~200 Millions. (This is only an estimation, so don't take the number too seriously.) And 2000 years ago, we had ~10,000 years of agriculture and ~5,000 years of diverse grades of civilization.

So, to go to a pre-civilization population level we need at least 6,900,000,000 volunteers.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#83
post #76
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet if you polled the US national population, you'd find the opposite and by a strong margin.

[deleted]

A "higher standard" would imply we hunt to extinction all non-vegetarian animals. Methinks that is a paradox. But YMMV.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#84
post #25

Let's start with a test: Do you have any opinions that you would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your peers? If the answer is no, you might want to stop and think about that. If everything you believe is something you're supposed to believe, could that possibly be a coincidence? Odds are it isn't. Odds are you just think whatever you're told. The other alternative would be that you independently consid…

This is addressed here: http://www.paulgraham.com/resay.html

"The Conformist Test doesn't consider a third possibility: that you simply don't care what anyone thinks."

True enough. But considering how very hard it is to disentangle yourself from the thinking of your time, someone who comforts himself with this thought is almost certain to be mistaken. It's not enough to be an ornery cuss. You have to be Voltaire, and then some.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#85

A fairly minor but prevalent one is speed limit laws. I personally feel most speed limit laws in North America are ridiculous. In almost every situation it is safe to drive significantly faster than the posted speed, so it seems fairly obvious that there's something wrong with the law itself. Now, in this particular group I expect that isn't terribly controversial. But it can be a very unpopular opinion in some circl…

I don't think you are correct about speed limits. Most limited access roads can probably support higher speeds (Except when there is a lot of traffic entering and exiting), but the majority of 2 lane roads don't have the visibility to support much higher speeds (More developed roads probably do, but they are small fraction of the total mileage). Roads that see much pedestrian use certainly don't need higher limits (t…

I'm in Canada, so it's possible that my experience differs. I will edit the post to clarify that I'm talking about arterial roads and highways though, not residential streets. Most main non-highway roads here still have limits of 50km/h (30mph), with the average speed ranging around 20% higher than that. Most highways have limits of 80km/h (50mph), with average speeds perhaps 10-20% higher, and IMO safe speeds in good conditions often 50% higher.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#86
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Even in Paul Graham's own essay, some things are always forgotten. He's smart enough to question why the Church/Italian state attacked Galileo for repeating Copernicus' ideas, who was a celebrated hero of the church. And nobody ever realizes that Galileo was not at all interested in the scientific facts (well he was, up to the point he went insane and became a political agitator and generally a lunatic, read…

That Socrates thing is curious. His crime: "Socrates is guilty of crime in refusing to recognize the gods acknowledged by the state, and importing strange divinities of his own; he is further guilty of corrupting the young." Was that just a convenient law to hang his prosecution on? Why not "inciting others to treason" or some such direct accusion?

The key here is to find out what the relation is between his "corrupted young" (ie. his students) and the thirty tyrants.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#87
post #68

Here are some things I think future societies will condemn us for: 1. Prison. Almost every modern penal system focuses on punishment rather than rehabilitation. I think that as our understanding of the brain improves, we'll be able to find the causes of violent behavior and cure them. Punishment will become cruel and unusual. 2. Eating meat (and other animal rights issues). Even if they're not conscious, most tasty a…

I think there's a flaw here in your assumption. You're assuming that because a society is in the future, that they will be more correct than where we currently are. However, there are societies that had atrocious human rights violations that linearly came after ones with comparatively less human rights issues. Secondly, I think you're assuming a moral/ethical high-ground in those statements, but I don't think those are necessarily proven.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#88
post #50

I find that in engineering circles theology and the notion of the existence of God is one of those 'moral taboos.' And advocating more nuclear power stations or private gun ownership. It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century. Always interesting to think abo…

Politics is the mindkiller and all that.[1] For almost every X where you can say, "Were you to advocate X in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century.", it is a good thing that opinions on X have changed. This heuristic isn't perfect, but it should cause you to think more about X. 1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/poli…

It's a good thing from the point of view of the present. We may decide in another two hundred years that it was better the old way after all.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#89
post #72
post #68

Here are some things I think future societies will condemn us for: 1. Prison. Almost every modern penal system focuses on punishment rather than rehabilitation. I think that as our understanding of the brain improves, we'll be able to find the causes of violent behavior and cure them. Punishment will become cruel and unusual. 2. Eating meat (and other animal rights issues). Even if they're not conscious, most tasty a…

Those are not things we cannot say though. Most people I know well think US prisons are a human rights crisis, eating meat is ethically unjustifiable (but delicious), and choosing to die is plainly a human right.

I can say those things only because the audience is HN and I don't plan to become a politician. The idea was to get people to think about what future societies would condemn us for, possibly even reconsidering their own views in the process.

I didn't say the things I can't say. I even said so. HN users would probably flag a comment containing what I didn't say.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#90
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. You're right in general, though as points out modern forms of "gun control" do have late 19th century racist roots. But outright criminal prohibitions on personal possession of firearms -- which we had in the U.S. in some areas before the Supreme Court's Heller decision -…

Isn't it anti-gun-control that takes on a religious import? "From my cold dead hands" and all that?

Not in the same way. I know the chairman of the Calguns Foundation (hoffmang on Twitter), who's also for HN purposes the chairman and CEO of a ~200-employee Silicon Valley recurring billing/subscription management startup. My understanding of his position, and I may of course have it wrong or be misremembering, is that he's okay with some form of background checks, perhaps via proof of backgroundcheckness, for ownership as long as you can actually own the firearm you want. He's okay with regulations on open or concealed carry as long as you can have some form of reasonable carry.

This is the opposite of the extreme near-religious positions of folks who want to ban guns. See Democrat Sen. Dianne Feinstein (CA) telling 60 Minutes she wanted an "outright ban" on all guns -- "Mr. and Mrs. America turn 'em all in" -- but didn't have enough Senate votes for it. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/01/Reminder-...

Post reply on HN