What You Can't Say (2004) • Hacker News Board

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#41

Post by cjslep » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:02 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

I find that in engineering circles theology and the notion of the existence of God is one of those 'moral taboos.' And advocating more nuclear power stations or private gun ownership. It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century. Always interesting to think abo…

I'm surprised at the mentioning of nuclear power plants. As an insider looking out, is it really that taboo to discuss? As an aside, I feel like the few conversations I've seen on HN surrounding it are well-informed and generally a technical discussion compared to the degenerate mud-slinging that can occur when discussing other topics.

Then again, I'm only exposed to the "Nuclear Power Policy" dialogue occurring in the United States.

Edited for clarity.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#42

Post by morganherlocker » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:02 PM UTC

defen wrote: post #32

ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

I find that in engineering circles theology and the notion of the existence of God is one of those 'moral taboos.' And advocating more nuclear power stations or private gun ownership. It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century. Always interesting to think abo…

Re: gun control, depends where you live. I grew up in a rural area where you'd still be laughed out of the room for suggesting that gun control was a good idea.

This is very true. My state just passed a law with overwhelming support that allows people to have guns in bars again. I did not expect it to be controversial to believe that drinking + guns + crowded rooms was a bad idea, but apparently I was wrong.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#43

Post by klochner » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:04 PM UTC

The prohibition will be strongest when the group is nervous.

Hence the behavior you see inside many startups - non-founding members questioning the mission/purpose/intention/success of the company is typically taboo.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#44

Post by neutronicus » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:05 PM UTC

robobro wrote: post #4

Do you think you'll raise your children to believe in Santa, HN?

Yes. It's an important life lesson.

Sometimes, you go along with obvious bullshit because there's something in it for you.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#45

Post by B-Con » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:08 PM UTC

> It would be a remarkable coincidence if ours were the first era to get everything just right.

I love this kind of insight. I think that we, as humans, are very egotistical by nature. The time we're living in is surely the time we have all the answers and everything important figured out. We simply can't live with the feeling of "eh, it'll be way better in 100 years". We always need the feeling of certainty and ownership. Throughout history, we have always been certain of what we thought, regardless of how much reason we had to believe it.

> If you believe everything you're supposed to now, how can you be sure you wouldn't also have believed everything you were supposed to if you had grown up among the plantation owners of the pre-Civil War South, or in Germany in the 1930s-- or among the Mongols in 1200, for that matter? Odds are you would have.

Here's a similar thought: "What are the odds that a huge percentage of the people with a certain position were born together in the same geographic location at the same time?" If that doesn't make you scared of being morally brainwashed, I don't know what will.

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#46

Post by Jtsummers » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:09 PM UTC

waps wrote: post #35

ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

I find that in engineering circles theology and the notion of the existence of God is one of those 'moral taboos.' And advocating more nuclear power stations or private gun ownership. It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century. Always interesting to think abo…

Exactly. Even in Paul Graham's own essay, some things are always forgotten. He's smart enough to question why the Church/Italian state attacked Galileo for repeating Copernicus' ideas, who was a celebrated hero of the church. And nobody ever realizes that Galileo was not at all interested in the scientific facts (well he was, up to the point he went insane and became a political agitator and generally a lunatic, read…

> There is at least a decent case to be made that Galileo was executed

Where do you get that he was executed?

Also, regarding differences between Copernicus's treatment and Galileo's. Copernicus didn't publish a lot of his material, nor was it widely known, until late in life. Galileo basically stepped into the controversy that had developed after Copernicus died. Essentially, there was little controversy in Copernicus's time because it wasn't widely known, and those that did know his theory didn't have a reason (yet) to view it as controversial or "wrong".

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#47

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:09 PM UTC

brd wrote: post #30

"Do you have any opinions that you would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your peers?" I think this test is fascinating when applied to the Musk vs. Gates debate from yesterday. How taboo is it to say forget charity? I know I feel uncomfortable with saying: 'forget the poor, we can fix them after we've figured out how to create a sustainable form of first world living' and yet that seems like a far more…

Why does it seem like a far more rational strategy to act upon?

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#48

Post by moron4hire » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:11 PM UTC

robobro wrote: post #4

Do you think you'll raise your children to believe in Santa, HN?

I'll probably do what my parents did to me, call Santa a "fun game".

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#49

Post by dxbydt » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:11 PM UTC

mef wrote: post #25

Let's start with a test: Do you have any opinions that you would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your peers? If the answer is no, you might want to stop and think about that. If everything you believe is something you're supposed to believe, could that possibly be a coincidence? Odds are it isn't. Odds are you just think whatever you're told. The other alternative would be that you independently consid…

Answer to your question: michaelochurch ?

Re: What You Can't Say (2004)

#50

Post by ggreer » Fri, Mar 21, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

I find that in engineering circles theology and the notion of the existence of God is one of those 'moral taboos.' And advocating more nuclear power stations or private gun ownership. It is fascinating that were you to advocate gun control in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century. Always interesting to think abo…

Politics is the mindkiller and all that.[1] For almost every X where you can say, "Were you to advocate X in the late 19th century, it seems nearly everyone would have laughed you out of the room. But that sentiment has reversed here in the 21st century.", it is a good thing that opinions on X have changed. This heuristic isn't perfect, but it should cause you to think more about X.

1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/