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Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

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Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#51

Post by userbinator »

lucian1900 wrote: post #37
rquirk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worry that desktop Firefox will go the way of the Android version or the neutered Firefox OS browser, where you cannot install the vital security add-on NoScript due to the incompatible add-on model that the mobile versions use. That used to work on Android, but no longer (and it seems the noscript dev is not a fan of the mobile platform). There are many more add-ons that only work on the desktop version. They shou…

The problem is that most existing extensions are based on XUL, which is terrible and impractical for good mobile UIs. There is a more abstract addon API (used by restartless addons) and your favourite ones just need to be updated. Also, NoScript is not a "vital security add-on".

> Also, NoScript is not a "vital security add-on".

The vast majority of exploits depend on JS being available, since (at the very least) it'll be used to unobfuscate/execute some attack code. Remember the Tor browser vulnerability that was exploited? That wouldn't have happened without JS.

(Coincidentally, I find it amusing that not too long after, that Firefox made it even harder to disable JS, by removing the checkbox for global enable/disable.)

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#52

Post by shock »

SquareWheel wrote: post #20
shock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on Ubuntu, if that makes a difference about the double click on the bookmark star so perhaps it's a platform issue. But I was referring to the bookmarks sidebar not toolbar. How do you open the sidebar?

On Windows Ctrl+B opens the bookmark sidebar, and ctrl+shift+b opens the "library" popup with bookmarks selected.

My point is that there used to be a button that you could place in a toolbar and clicking the button would open the bookmarks sidebar. That button is now gone. I'm sure that in time I'll get used to the changes in australis but I think it would have been better if they would have been introduced gradually. As it was introduced, lots of things stopped working at once the way I was used to. For me, this is friction and it's not good.

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#53

Post by kevingadd »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #40
veeti wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> says a lot about what Mozilla really think of customisation. Oh? And what is that? "Customization is great and you should have the option to do so"? Try having a "classic theme restorer" with Chromium. > it may get broken again in later versions Future changes may cause incompatibilities in any project. That is why such changes are released in major new versions so that add-on developers have plenty of time to make…

It's different when breaking changes are infrequent and optional. This is no longer the case with firefox: breaking changes can come at any time and you generally don't have the option to upgrade (although I do recall there being an option to turn off auto updating, I'm not sure this is a good solution though).

Mozilla periodically releases 'ESRs', or extended service releases, that are exactly what you complain they don't offer: the ability to lock yourself to a given release without being forced to upgrade (the most recent ESR gets security updates, IIRC.)

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#54

Post by lucian1900 »

userbinator wrote: post #51
lucian1900 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that most existing extensions are based on XUL, which is terrible and impractical for good mobile UIs. There is a more abstract addon API (used by restartless addons) and your favourite ones just need to be updated. Also, NoScript is not a "vital security add-on".

> Also, NoScript is not a "vital security add-on". The vast majority of exploits depend on JS being available, since (at the very least) it'll be used to unobfuscate/execute some attack code. Remember the Tor browser vulnerability that was exploited? That wouldn't have happened without JS. (Coincidentally, I find it amusing that not too long after, that Firefox made it even harder to disable JS, by removing the check…

That's almost like saying the vast majority of exploits depend on you using a Turing machine.

Breaking most websites for the sake of slightly reducing the attack surface doesn't seem worth it.

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#55

Post by rquirk »

lucian1900 wrote: post #37
rquirk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worry that desktop Firefox will go the way of the Android version or the neutered Firefox OS browser, where you cannot install the vital security add-on NoScript due to the incompatible add-on model that the mobile versions use. That used to work on Android, but no longer (and it seems the noscript dev is not a fan of the mobile platform). There are many more add-ons that only work on the desktop version. They shou…

The problem is that most existing extensions are based on XUL, which is terrible and impractical for good mobile UIs. There is a more abstract addon API (used by restartless addons) and your favourite ones just need to be updated. Also, NoScript is not a "vital security add-on".

Firefox has no XSS mitigation built in unlike Chrome and even Internet Explorer. NoScript provides that for Firefox, even if you allow global scripts for practicality purposes you're getting XSS protection.

And I realise that there are design trade offs, but it seems sad that mobile has to drag the desktop into the realm of relative uselessness - not all add-ons can be updated to use the new abstract API (since the API will have gaps that the old API used to support).

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#56

Post by shock »

Pacabel wrote: post #46
zanny wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't make the addon. What, you want them to go back on 15 years of history and make the UI non-customizable? What are they, Google?

I think he just wants them to not screw up the UI so badly in the first place that numerous addons and customization is needed to bring it back to a minimal level of usability.

I'm not sure what were the datapoints that suggested to them that the UI was in need of an overhaul but I would have been much happier if they lowered the cpu usage of Firefox. To be fair I have a massive number of bookmarks (12000+) and tabs :-/ I was happy with the UI as it were. I'm using Ubuntu, btw.

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#57

Post by Yoric »

userbinator wrote: post #3

In this new version, Mozilla presents a major user interface overhaul Australis that makes it easy to customize your browser. The amount of doublespeak Mozilla has been putting out recently is astounding. Read the comments here for example (I don't know if they've changed anything since then, but I doubt it): https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2013/11/australis-is-landing-in-... All they appear to be doing is chasing Chrome…

Actually, Australis has been at work for years. I seem to remember that the first mockups of Australis are actually older than Chrome 1.0. It just took us lots (and lots, and lots) of iterations to build something that users actually enjoy.

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#58

Post by Yoric »

morsch wrote: post #11

So now I need to give them my email address plus remember yet another password for sync? Do not want. I always thought the old model with the sync keys was pretty sweet. Is the synced data end-to-end encrypted? It better be!

Unfortunately, according to our research, an enormous majority of people (read 95%+) hated it. So we had to switch to something less surprising, but that most users [believe that they] understand. Sad but necessary.

Re: Firefox 29 beta arrives with easy Sync tool....

#59

Post by wlesieutre »

kevingadd wrote: post #45
Pacabel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people tell Mozilla that their recent UI changes are bad. Just read the comments of any blog post Mozilla makes about such changes. Mozilla never listens. Their current approach is always deemed the "correct" one, even if it's seen as totally wrong a mere 3 to 4 months later, and subsequently reworked in some significant way. These recent moves to imitate Chrome to an even greater extent are not welcomed, eve…

I love that the same thread has people complaining that Firefox is simultaneously not enough like Chrome and too much like Chrome. Mozilla literally cannot win here; no matter what they do people will just get angrier. They should just strip out the whole Firefox UI and make you run it from a terminal.

"Ugh, the new newsfeed is terrible. I'm quitting facebook. For real this time, not like the last 4 times."

I mostly like Australis. And I can see why Mozilla doesn't listen to most of the noise about it. As with everything else, nobody gets really loud about how much better it is.

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