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A simple way to "get more people to code"

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Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#31
post #20
post #9

"Companies could increase the representation of younger people in programming by paying extra money to programmers below a certain age." With ageism being considered "natural", what about giving incentive for old developers to keep coding instead ?

Think a few steps further down these lines and you'll be able to separate the people worrying about "teaching everyone to code" into evil (companies looking for cheap labor) and stupid (people thinking there are problems that need solving where there aren't any and it is "solutions" that breed problems, in this case a surplus of professionals in one area at the expense of other areas and the workers who've needlessly…

I take offense to your " 'teaching everyone to code' into evil and stupid" comment.

When I say "everyone should know how to code" what I mean is that everyone should know how to open a spreadsheet and do calculations, conditionals, iterative calculations, &c. From there I feel it's natural to then teach them a little of something along the lines of Python to do some simple calculations and algorithms.

I mean that people shouldn't be afraid to use a computer to do (gasp) computations. I don't think everyone will be a coder, engineer, or architect. I don't even think most people will enjoy it, per say, but they should know how to do it (just like someone people complain about having to take math, music, or art), using a ubiquitous tool should be part of a basic curriculum.

>Indeed any consistent argument in favor of motivating people to program would at least mention aging programmers and no such mention is to be found, or at least I never noticed it.

I have no idea what you mean

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#32
This is an understandable way to look at the problem, but I think it's largely wrong. You need to capture minds while they're still very open to learning. People are locking themselves into career paths by the time they graduate college, at least in America. Student loans means getting a second degree in something you rather do is largely impossible since you have to start paying down your debt when you graduate. A higher-paying job sounds great, but when it'll take an extra $400/month in debt for the next 10 years, it's pretty hard to justify. This leads to thinking "Huh, let's engage minds earlier".

Most people in high school aren't thinking super-hard about their careers. They're thinking about school and college. Even then, kids learn about "big" achievements - RNA, species classification, electron shells, WW2, White House scandals, etc. You're aspiring to be someone if you're in an area where you have scholastic resources, not just some programmer. You're not looking so hard at money. If you're in an impoverished area where graduation rates are abysmal and you're not even being taught science, the odds of being a professional athlete or pop star look about the same as going to college - a whole different set of challenges. Let's assume we're talking about high schools with resources to even have computer classes.

Paying more money doesn't make it a sexy profession - there are plenty of "famous" programmers that the HN crowd knows about, but none of their achievements are public. Creating a business like Amazon or Facebook doesn't have the same personal allure to most people like inventing a vaccine for polio does. I bet if you asked a classroom of high schoolers who Jeff Bezos is, 85% of the room would have no idea. There's no _personal glory_ to being a programmer.

With law, you can help people's lives directly - same with being a doctor. There's a social value to those professions that seems obvious and immediate (even though it might be far from the truth). Most people want to do good in the world, and being a programmer has no obvious correlation with that. It doesn't entice students because there's no history written about programmers, no scientific experiments you do in classroom, no math taught that correlates with programming. It's in academic isolation until college, and by then, it's too late.

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#33
Let's get "more people to code well" first. Then let's get companies to compensate their employees fairly (i.e. more proportional to the amount of cash they generate with their if and for loops). Then maybe we can start thinking about enrolling more people in the game.

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#34

After 25+ years of coding and reading other people's code I would submit that the REAL problem is that the people who do code don't do it very well, some are downright stupid. There are a lot of people out there who will never be able to produce anything beyond "Hello World" and some will struggle to get that far. What if we focused early on identifying kids with good problem solving skill and other aptitudes that mi…

"Problem solving skills" is an overly broad, corporate word, which is just as bad as synergy, in my opinion.

You cannot test for "problem solving skills". However, you can test for more concrete definitions of intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligence...). I am a decent programmer and I was never amazing at formal schooling. I always scored really high for visual–spatial intelligence in standardized intelligence while in school. My councilors told me I was good at reading graphs and maps and maybe I should go into geography. Fast-fowrard to today when I am a programmer and I've read that visual-spacial intelligence is one of the most clear predictors of a programmer's ability. Too bad my high school consoler thought I should go into geography and not programming. The real advice he should have given me was skip the whole college thing and learn how to program on your own, but that probably would not have flied with the powers that be.

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#35
This piece is genius. For those who don't get it, it's dripping in sarcasm. Not to say that the author doesn't think it would work (he may have some misgivings about just throwing money at developers), but that he's calling bullshit on the motives of those talking about "learn to code."

People are paid in more than just money. There's job security, interesting work, autonomy, and (more motivating than people think) social status. The vast majority of developers don't have anything but money, and frankly a lot of them don't even have money!

There are things more important than writing code (even good, well-engineered code aimed at solving real problems). There's: playing with your dog, going for a run, spending time with your family, and going out for a night with friends. People have chosen all these things over learning to code. Let them.

Is it not a BIG RED FLAG that the prime message is "Everyone should learn to code...well, everyone but me, anyway."?

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#38

After 25+ years of coding and reading other people's code I would submit that the REAL problem is that the people who do code don't do it very well, some are downright stupid. There are a lot of people out there who will never be able to produce anything beyond "Hello World" and some will struggle to get that far. What if we focused early on identifying kids with good problem solving skill and other aptitudes that mi…

I think EVERYONE should learn to code just as everyone learns ARITHMETIC. Imagine a world where only a few of us knew how to balance an account, or a few of us understood how much will they have left if they spent x amount at the gas station. Now imagine a world where everybody has a basic ability to develop software. All the above being said, the beginning is not programming, but learning how to Think, Read, and Wri…

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Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#39

This piece is genius. For those who don't get it, it's dripping in sarcasm . Not to say that the author doesn't think it would work (he may have some misgivings about just throwing money at developers), but that he's calling bullshit on the motives of those talking about "learn to code." People are paid in more than just money. There's job security, interesting work, autonomy, and (more motivating than people think)…

[deleted]

Re: A simple way to "get more people to code"

#40
post #32

This is an understandable way to look at the problem, but I think it's largely wrong. You need to capture minds while they're still very open to learning. People are locking themselves into career paths by the time they graduate college, at least in America. Student loans means getting a second degree in something you rather do is largely impossible since you have to start paying down your debt when you graduate. A h…

"This is an understandable way to look at the problem."

Who says it's a problem?

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