Embrace the trolls
blog.ivylees.com
Embrace the trolls
1–10 of 16 posts
Re: Embrace the trolls
#2There's a big difference between people with outlying opinions, who can add valuable feedback to a discussion and trolls, who add nothing.
Experiments have repeatedly shown that when trolls are visible only to themselves, no one else can acknowledge their presence, so they just go away.
Trolls are to be ignored. Outliers are to be embraced.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#3There's a big difference between people with outlying opinions, who can add valuable feedback to a discussion and trolls, who add nothing. Experiments have repeatedly shown that when trolls are visible only to themselves, no one else can acknowledge their presence, so they just go away. Trolls are to be ignored. Outliers are to be embraced.
HN has some of this built in it looks like.
Plenty of times I'll see a comment by someone (usually clearly trolling) and the comment is labelled 'dead' seconds after posting.
Here is a timely example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=743103
The comment at the bottom clearly is not a troll and yet it is labelled 'dead'.
Outlying opinions are not appreciated on HN though, there was a 'worstcomments' link (admin only now it seems) that would show some (very) clear evidence of that.
Which is a real pity.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#4I disagree with the middle-way answer: it also doesn't require any thinking.
In any forum, you should separate the emotional content from the factual content and only respond to the latter. This is quite different from taking the middle way.
Though there are moderate trolls whose inflammatory postings contain useful factual content, I prefer forums where extreme trolling is dealt with harshly. Dissent is uncorrelated with rudeness (meaning that moderating extreme trolling won't drown out dissent) and no-one wants to spend their online time with the horribleness of uncontrolled trolling.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#5I disagree with the middle-way answer: it also doesn't require any thinking. In any forum, you should separate the emotional content from the factual content and only respond to the latter. This is quite different from taking the middle way. Though there are moderate trolls whose inflammatory postings contain useful factual content, I prefer forums where extreme trolling is dealt with harshly. Dissent is uncorrelated…
The scary thing to me is how few trolls it takes to destroy an otherwise perfectly good community. 10 trolls can ruin the atmosphere for 1000 people easily.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#6There's a big difference between people with outlying opinions, who can add valuable feedback to a discussion and trolls, who add nothing. Experiments have repeatedly shown that when trolls are visible only to themselves, no one else can acknowledge their presence, so they just go away. Trolls are to be ignored. Outliers are to be embraced.
If you define a troll as someone who contributes nothing, then I guess I can't disagree with you.
Todd's definition was a bit broader, though, and seemed to include those who expressed a negative opinion in a harsh way.
Of course, the word has as at least as many definitions as there are online communities. The post could have easily been "Negative outliers are not trolls!"
Re: Embrace the trolls
#7[deleted]
Re: Embrace the trolls
#8There's a big difference between people with outlying opinions, who can add valuable feedback to a discussion and trolls, who add nothing. Experiments have repeatedly shown that when trolls are visible only to themselves, no one else can acknowledge their presence, so they just go away. Trolls are to be ignored. Outliers are to be embraced.
HN has some of this built in it looks like. Plenty of times I'll see a comment by someone (usually clearly trolling) and the comment is labelled 'dead' seconds after posting. Here is a timely example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=743103 The comment at the bottom clearly is not a troll and yet it is labelled 'dead'. Outlying opinions are not appreciated on HN though, there was a 'worstcomments' link (admin only…
Outlying opinions are not appreciated on HN though
I would amend that to, "Outlying opinions are often subject to harsh treatment on HN."
As an occasional outlier here, I used to wonder if I was losing my mind from time to time. How could I feel so strongly about something while almost every responder felt the opposite?
I don't worry about it so much any more. Just say what you're thinking and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe we'll all learn something.
Better to have that learning experience in this "harmless playground" first than with a boss or a customer.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#9I disagree with the middle-way answer: it also doesn't require any thinking. In any forum, you should separate the emotional content from the factual content and only respond to the latter. This is quite different from taking the middle way. Though there are moderate trolls whose inflammatory postings contain useful factual content, I prefer forums where extreme trolling is dealt with harshly. Dissent is uncorrelated…
The scary thing to me is how few trolls it takes to destroy an otherwise perfectly good community. 10 trolls can ruin the atmosphere for 1000 people easily.
That's right, I`ll keep the 'ignore the troll' motto. Trolls add nothing to a discussion, constructive criticisms does.
Re: Embrace the trolls
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN has some of this built in it looks like. Plenty of times I'll see a comment by someone (usually clearly trolling) and the comment is labelled 'dead' seconds after posting. Here is a timely example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=743103 The comment at the bottom clearly is not a troll and yet it is labelled 'dead'. Outlying opinions are not appreciated on HN though, there was a 'worstcomments' link (admin only…
Outlying opinions are not appreciated on HN though I would amend that to, "Outlying opinions are often subject to harsh treatment on HN." As an occasional outlier here, I used to wonder if I was losing my mind from time to time. How could I feel so strongly about something while almost every responder felt the opposite? I don't worry about it so much any more. Just say what you're thinking and let the chips fall wher…
If they respond in writing you learn something if all you get is a bunch of unmotivated downvotes (and that happens quite often) it even leaves the old hands feeling like they got beaten up for something without knowing why.
This is frustrating.