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What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

nytimes.com

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Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#21

Post by svenkatesh »

rrrazdan wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with anything? The US does not bankroll the ISI. The US is in an undeclared war with the ISI. My guess is 100% of HN readers know about the US's role in bankrolling the Afghan insurgency, using a terrible Pakastani dictator as a vector. There are no good guys in that story: the Soviet occupation was horrifically violent and repressive, and there was never any chance that the Afghani warlords…

The US funds or gives aid to the Pakistani State. The Pakistani state diverts its own money to fund the ISI. So the US does bankroll ISI. Pakistan is not really one of the most paranoid and aggressive in the world. And that is coming from an Indian here. It is much more civilized than many nations and has much of the institutions that make a modern nation. Just that the military and religious extremism( which inciden…

>It is much more civilized than many nations and has much of the institutions that make a modern nation. Just that the military and religious extremism

Given that the Pakistani military and ISI control so much of Pakistan's government, is this a worthwhile distinction?

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#22

Post by selimthegrim »

wdvh wrote: post #16
tptacek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with anything? The US does not bankroll the ISI. The US is in an undeclared war with the ISI. My guess is 100% of HN readers know about the US's role in bankrolling the Afghan insurgency, using a terrible Pakastani dictator as a vector. There are no good guys in that story: the Soviet occupation was horrifically violent and repressive, and there was never any chance that the Afghani warlords…

Please, Pakistan is warlike and aggressive because they have been manipulated by the US into believing they can take on India (with US support). > genocidal violence against Muslim Indians. What's this about? Partition killed as many Hindus and Sikhs as Muslims and pre-Independence India had little communal violence that wasn't explicitly fomented by the British in order to serve their own ends. If you're so well rea…

You may want to look in to what happened when Hyderabad was annexed to India in 1948.

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#23

Post by svenkatesh »

unsupak wrote: post #19

Mainstream media with its uncorroborated sources, strategic, timed, unsubstantiated and anonymous "leaks", often serving the interests of lobby groups policy makers, think tanks and intelligence agencies is hard to be believed. Even if the writer as good at the art of writing.

Would you care to point out some of the inconsistencies/falsehoods in the article?

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#24

Post by rrrazdan »

tptacek wrote: post #18
wdvh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, Pakistan is warlike and aggressive because they have been manipulated by the US into believing they can take on India (with US support). > genocidal violence against Muslim Indians. What's this about? Partition killed as many Hindus and Sikhs as Muslims and pre-Independence India had little communal violence that wasn't explicitly fomented by the British in order to serve their own ends. If you're so well rea…

Sorry, I was wrong. The government of Pakistan are the good guys.

Umm yes you are. The genocidal violence was not a one sided affair. Numerous sources say that it was instigated by the Muslim League to further their case for a separate nation.

In any case, the 15 odd percent Muslims in India are proof enough that the word genocidal is not appropriate here.

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#25

Post by svenkatesh »

selimthegrim wrote: post #22
wdvh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, Pakistan is warlike and aggressive because they have been manipulated by the US into believing they can take on India (with US support). > genocidal violence against Muslim Indians. What's this about? Partition killed as many Hindus and Sikhs as Muslims and pre-Independence India had little communal violence that wasn't explicitly fomented by the British in order to serve their own ends. If you're so well rea…

You may want to look in to what happened when Hyderabad was annexed to India in 1948.

Are you referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Polo

"After a stalemate in negotiations between the Nizam and India, mass killing and rape of the Hindu population by Razakars, and wary of a hostile independent state in the centre of India, Deputy Prime Minister Sardar Patel decided to annex the state of Hyderabad."

Wow, good thing that genocidal Nizam was forcibly put down...

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#26

Post by thisiswrong »

mikeash wrote: post #5
thisiswrong wrote: post #3

In a democratic society free from fear of surveillance the real conversation would be: "what the USA doesn't yet know about Bin Laden" [1] [1] http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavello_050503_bombs.ht...

What do crazy 9/11 conspiracy theories have to do with any of this?

And here lies the problem

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#27

Post by tptacek »

rrrazdan wrote: post #24
tptacek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I was wrong. The government of Pakistan are the good guys.

Umm yes you are. The genocidal violence was not a one sided affair. Numerous sources say that it was instigated by the Muslim League to further their case for a separate nation. In any case, the 15 odd percent Muslims in India are proof enough that the word genocidal is not appropriate here.

You can call it whatever you want. No part of my point hinges on me litigating the distinction you're trying to make.

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#28

Post by tptacek »

rrrazdan wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with anything? The US does not bankroll the ISI. The US is in an undeclared war with the ISI. My guess is 100% of HN readers know about the US's role in bankrolling the Afghan insurgency, using a terrible Pakastani dictator as a vector. There are no good guys in that story: the Soviet occupation was horrifically violent and repressive, and there was never any chance that the Afghani warlords…

The US funds or gives aid to the Pakistani State. The Pakistani state diverts its own money to fund the ISI. So the US does bankroll ISI. Pakistan is not really one of the most paranoid and aggressive in the world. And that is coming from an Indian here. It is much more civilized than many nations and has much of the institutions that make a modern nation. Just that the military and religious extremism( which inciden…

Did you just refer to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan as a reform movement?

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#29

Post by mikeash »

thisiswrong wrote: post #26
mikeash wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do crazy 9/11 conspiracy theories have to do with any of this?

And here lies the problem

Sadly, I assume you're referring to my reply, rather than your inability to detect obvious nonsense.

Here's just one minor hint out of many serious problems with that article: try to look up "military response code 7610-4J".

Re: What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

#30

Post by svenkatesh »

tptacek wrote: post #27
rrrazdan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm yes you are. The genocidal violence was not a one sided affair. Numerous sources say that it was instigated by the Muslim League to further their case for a separate nation. In any case, the 15 odd percent Muslims in India are proof enough that the word genocidal is not appropriate here.

You can call it whatever you want. No part of my point hinges on me litigating the distinction you're trying to make.

I'm a bit lost. What genocidal violence was it, that caused the formation of the state of Pakistan?
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