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Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

robertheaton.com

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Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#51

Post by kevinastone »

steven2012 wrote: post #46
at-fates-hands wrote: post #40

>> You want to start negotiating at your strongest point - when they have said “we love you, let’s make a deal.” One simple practice is at the end of the interview when you get the, "So what's the salary range you're looking at?" question, I always give them about 5-10K higher than what I'm currently making with the caveat, "But I'm always open to negotiating." which keeps the door open for the company/agency to get…

Never, ever, ever pin yourself down with a number. This weakens your ability to negotiate tremendously. Not giving a number forces the other side to present what they believe to be a good offer, as opposed to what you already mentioned as a desired number, which might be a lot lower than what they were thinking of. I always say "I'm fine with a market-rate salary. I'm open to a salary cut from my current salary if th…

This routinely great advise (never make the first move!) just doesn't work in practice. Those making the hiring decisions are going to want to identify a range of possible salaries before continuing the recruiting process. Otherwise, if the candidate later demands an extremely high price, we both wasted a lot of time and resources.

Here's what I recommend and have used successfully:

A) Offer a range

B) Offer your last salary (with some expectation of a bump)

The key is that this gets you in the door for consideration without being committal. Once the employer begins to really sell themselves on you, then you have the leverage. Other offers can justify increasing your ask and now they're more hooked on you as the right candidate.

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#52

Post by alandarev »

I haven't noticed anyone expressing their thanks for sharing helpful information on getting a job in SF.

Your post is directly applicable to my current situation, and has reassured that I am not "average outsider" and should continue pushing my dreams, despite of being recent graduate in UK.

Huge thanks for sharing your experience and giving advices to obstacles :)

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#53

Post by fecak »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #40

>> You want to start negotiating at your strongest point - when they have said “we love you, let’s make a deal.” One simple practice is at the end of the interview when you get the, "So what's the salary range you're looking at?" question, I always give them about 5-10K higher than what I'm currently making with the caveat, "But I'm always open to negotiating." which keeps the door open for the company/agency to get…

This is poor advice. When you say "I'm always open to negotiating", you've immediately lost to a degree. Think about these two scenarios:

Q: "How much are you seeking?" A1: "I'm looking for 80K" A2: "I'm looking for 80K, but I'm always open to negotiating"

A1 may get 80K, A2 is unlikely to get 80K, because A2 has started negotiations before even being told no.

When you are asked for a salary requirement in a live setting, say your number (assuming you choose to say your number) and stop talking. There may be some silence, and that's ok.

This mistake is one I mostly attribute to entry level job seekers. I've been recruiting some junior level roles lately and these candidates almost always add the "willing to negotiate" to their number. I give them this same advice - say your number and stop.

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#57

Post by beagle90 »

MichaelTieso wrote: post #25

I never really know what to do during negotiation time. During the first interview, I'm usually asked how much. I'm told that I should always try to push it back for the other person to make the first offer. However in matter how hard I try, they demand that I make the first offer. I don't want to aim too high or too low in fear that I'd lose out on the opportunity.

Always go for the highest they offer. E.g. If you apply for a job 25,000 - 35,000 go for 35k. My thinking behind this is that it shows you're confident in your ability. Remember a lot of companies are big enough to incur an extra 5k of salary in order to get the very best candidate.

I'd say the above becomes more true the bigger the company gets... Small companies <10 employees this theory could well breakdown.

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#58

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #39
mercurial wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No DNS resolution? As for the link shortener infrastructure, I'd ask for more context to get a better idea of the scope. If there is not more context than that, define the scope at which you're operating (eg, "I understand 'infrastructure' as 'the structure of the service' and not as 'the physical infrastructure'" and define yourself what the URL shortener does (going with "a web service with a single endpoint" sound…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#59

Post by steven2012 »

kevinastone wrote: post #51
steven2012 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never, ever, ever pin yourself down with a number. This weakens your ability to negotiate tremendously. Not giving a number forces the other side to present what they believe to be a good offer, as opposed to what you already mentioned as a desired number, which might be a lot lower than what they were thinking of. I always say "I'm fine with a market-rate salary. I'm open to a salary cut from my current salary if th…

This routinely great advise (never make the first move!) just doesn't work in practice. Those making the hiring decisions are going to want to identify a range of possible salaries before continuing the recruiting process. Otherwise, if the candidate later demands an extremely high price, we both wasted a lot of time and resources. Here's what I recommend and have used successfully: A) Offer a range B) Offer your las…

I've always used this very common tactic successfully in my almost 20 years living in Silicon Valley. If they take offense to this, then they're probably not a good employer.

The thing is, what you believe is a fair rate could be vastly below market rate. As a salaried employee, you don't have any real insight into what they are paying people.

For example, I've heard from a friend at Apple $170,000/yr + 250k in RSUs over 4 years. He said a co-worker accepted a job at Google for 180k + 400k in RSUs over 4 years. I would never have known these, and if I gave what I believed to be a fair rate, I might have underbid myself.

Re: Lessons from a Silicon Valley job search

#60

Post by michaelochurch »

steven2012 wrote: post #36
michaelochurch wrote: post #7

Getting a job in Silicon Valley, as an outsider, isn't hard. Getting a good job is hard. Many offers will come through at a lower level just because, whatever you did, you didn't do it in the Valley. That's Cali arrogance for ya. Hedge fund interviews are a lot more intense and technically difficult (and you feel good when you pass) but don't come with the VC-fueled, youthful arrogance of a proper Valley company. Hed…

Every time startups are mentioned, you have a lengthy diatribe over how Silicon Valley sucks. Yet, you've admitted that you've never worked in Silicon Valley. I'm sorry you are so butthurt over being screwed over by a NYC startup, but it's not that bad out here. Every place has assholes and arrogant pricks, but some of the best team members I've worked with are out here as well.

I've interviewed with plenty of SV startups and know what I'm talking about.
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