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JDK 8 Release Notes

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Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#41

Post by chaostheory »

pron wrote: post #18
bane wrote: post #4

You know, I've been messing around with Java little lately. Nothing too fancy. It's actually not a bad language -- with a modern IDE it's actually pretty quick and breezy to work with. If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that. There's too much old 90's cruft hanging arou…

A major cleanup of the Java libraries is scheduled for Java 9. The JVM actually does not surprise anyone who's been working with it for a while: it is downright the most performant, flexible and awesome runtime environment ever developed. I've been playing around with lots of languages and environments in my pretty long career and, in the past decade, have always come back to Java (or the JVM). It feels like driving…

> Aside from terrific performance, the JVM gives you the best concurrency platform out there (though not the easiest to use)

It's getting easier

http://akka.io/

http://gpars.codehaus.org/

I think clojure is also actor based.

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#42

Post by michaelt »

jpitz wrote: post #7
bane wrote: post #4

You know, I've been messing around with Java little lately. Nothing too fancy. It's actually not a bad language -- with a modern IDE it's actually pretty quick and breezy to work with. If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that. There's too much old 90's cruft hanging arou…

There are warts in the standard library to be sure, but many of them have already been filled in by third parties like Apache Commons, Google Guava, and Joda-time. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.

If you aspire to make Java into the type of language we would arrive at if we redesigned Java from scratch today, it's not just a matter of adding good features but also removing bad ones.

For example, you'd go directly to Joda-Time or JSR-310. Date and Calendar wouldn't be present at all.

Whether Java should break compatibility to remove all the old cruft I'm not sure. The benefits of the cleaner design might not be worth the costs/inconvenience.

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#43

Post by benjiweber »

mariusmg wrote: post #17
bane wrote: post #4

You know, I've been messing around with Java little lately. Nothing too fancy. It's actually not a bad language -- with a modern IDE it's actually pretty quick and breezy to work with. If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that. There's too much old 90's cruft hanging arou…

C# is a nice languae. Java...not so much. Properties, delegates, proper generics, LINQ and so on.

A lot of the things you can do with LINQ you can do in Java now there are lambdas and method references. e.g. http://benjiweber.co.uk/blog/2013/12/28/typesafe-database-in...

Properties you could simulate with lambdas now. something like Property name = get(() -> name).set(name -> this.name = name);

You would lose all the existing framework support that assumes getters and setters doing that though.

Some of the generics failure will likely be fixed in 9 (Primitive specialisation). Other things are not as bad as some people think (At least generic supertype params are available at runtime)

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#44

Post by lmm »

netcraft wrote: post #6
bane wrote: post #4

You know, I've been messing around with Java little lately. Nothing too fancy. It's actually not a bad language -- with a modern IDE it's actually pretty quick and breezy to work with. If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that. There's too much old 90's cruft hanging arou…

>If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that this is what groovy and kotlin attempt to do. groovy is backwards compatible with java as well, in most cases java code is valid groovy code.

I'd say Ceylon is the interesting project here - it keeps the JVM but drops the standard library.

(I'm a big fan of Scala - its sheer power is second to none - but it definitely has its ugly parts and many of them can't be fixed as long as it's to remain compatible with the Java standard library)

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#45

Post by Pxtl »

bane wrote: post #4

You know, I've been messing around with Java little lately. Nothing too fancy. It's actually not a bad language -- with a modern IDE it's actually pretty quick and breezy to work with. If the standard library was cleaned up and the warts were all removed and filled in, even if it broke compatibility (call it Java X or the Latte language or something) I'd be okay with that. There's too much old 90's cruft hanging arou…

Breaking backwards compatibility isn't really an option, but if the compiler and IDE would discourage the use of legacy features that would be best.

Just remove the legacy/ugly methods and packages from the autocomplete process, and warn with recommendations/flag as deprecated. You don't actually have to break anything.

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#46

Post by spullara »

bane wrote: post #24
jpitz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are warts in the standard library to be sure, but many of them have already been filled in by third parties like Apache Commons, Google Guava, and Joda-time. I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, and I've already come across most of those. Integrating lots of that stuff into the standard libraries that Java ships with would be exactly what I'm thinking of...and jettisoning all the broken GUI frameworks and such. And cleaning up the disaster pile that is I/O. I mean, I think there's still stuff sitting around in javax.* from when I last touched Java 14 years ago. I thought that was supposed to be the exp…

In javax, the x stands for extension not experimental.

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#47

Post by rooted »

chaostheory wrote: post #41
pron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major cleanup of the Java libraries is scheduled for Java 9. The JVM actually does not surprise anyone who's been working with it for a while: it is downright the most performant, flexible and awesome runtime environment ever developed. I've been playing around with lots of languages and environments in my pretty long career and, in the past decade, have always come back to Java (or the JVM). It feels like driving…

> Aside from terrific performance, the JVM gives you the best concurrency platform out there (though not the easiest to use) It's getting easier http://akka.io/ http://gpars.codehaus.org/ I think clojure is also actor based.

Clojure is not actor based but has some terrific primitives for concurrency

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#48

Post by FreezerburnV »

chaostheory wrote: post #41
pron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major cleanup of the Java libraries is scheduled for Java 9. The JVM actually does not surprise anyone who's been working with it for a while: it is downright the most performant, flexible and awesome runtime environment ever developed. I've been playing around with lots of languages and environments in my pretty long career and, in the past decade, have always come back to Java (or the JVM). It feels like driving…

> Aside from terrific performance, the JVM gives you the best concurrency platform out there (though not the easiest to use) It's getting easier http://akka.io/ http://gpars.codehaus.org/ I think clojure is also actor based.

Don't forget Quasar: https://github.com/puniverse/quasar

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#49

Post by benjiweber »

benjiweber wrote: post #43
mariusmg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# is a nice languae. Java...not so much. Properties, delegates, proper generics, LINQ and so on.

A lot of the things you can do with LINQ you can do in Java now there are lambdas and method references. e.g. http://benjiweber.co.uk/blog/2013/12/28/typesafe-database-in... Properties you could simulate with lambdas now. something like Property name = get(() -> name).set(name -> this.name = name); You would lose all the existing framework support that assumes getters and setters doing that though. Some of the generi…

Here's that example of Property implementation

https://github.com/benjiman/expressions/blob/master/src/test...

https://github.com/benjiman/expressions/blob/master/src/main...

Re: JDK 8 Release Notes

#50

Post by mihn »

melling wrote: post #19

Anyone know what Google is going to do about Java 8 compatibility on Android? Not being able to adopt lambdas on mobile is a bummer.

Apparently Android is not using Java, but something that looks like Java. I bet Google vs. Oracle trial can be attributed to that. :)
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