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The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

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Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#201

Post by onetwofiveten »

rodly wrote: post #79
ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

Find a field that has been woman-dominated for the last 50 years. Now put a man in that field, who is rather successful (like yourself in technology), and you will get the exact same result in the contexts you describe. I'm sick of this paradox where men and women are equal and yet men (and only men) are capable of making this mistake. It's simple pattern matching, and when the pattern tells you one thing and it's ac…

Do you really find it hard to understand why it would be frustrating for people to not take you seriously and constantly hit on you in a professional context?

And what exactly are you defending here? If you're in a professional situation (which includes work related social events) then you shouldn't make unwelcome sexual advances. That's how you avoid sexual harassment lawsuits. If you don't have the social awareness required to know whether or not someone else is attracted to you, then that's very sad, but it's your problem. You have to work on it in your own time. Don't flail around at work making everyone else uncomfortable, hoping to get lucky.

Also, I can't believe you're defending the right to make patronising snap judgements about people based on statistical correlations. You don't need to prejudge the people you meet in a professional context. Just be polite and pay attention.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#202

Post by JoeAltmaier »

onetwofiveten wrote: post #201
rodly wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a field that has been woman-dominated for the last 50 years. Now put a man in that field, who is rather successful (like yourself in technology), and you will get the exact same result in the contexts you describe. I'm sick of this paradox where men and women are equal and yet men (and only men) are capable of making this mistake. It's simple pattern matching, and when the pattern tells you one thing and it's ac…

Do you really find it hard to understand why it would be frustrating for people to not take you seriously and constantly hit on you in a professional context? And what exactly are you defending here? If you're in a professional situation (which includes work related social events) then you shouldn't make unwelcome sexual advances. That's how you avoid sexual harassment lawsuits. If you don't have the social awareness…

Its all very good to admonish 'treat everyone well'. But when you meet a lot of people, a LOT of people, you need some filter.

Cultural filters are unfair to a minority who break the mold. But the trouble is, they work very, very well most of the time. Call it by any bad name you like; but its here to stay, because it works.

That a utilitarian argument I know; but in my experience the free market respects no other kind.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#203

Post by onetwofiveten »

benihana wrote: post #199
route66 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think nobody is to blame here An industry who employs women as booth babes , apparently because staring at a booth babe sells tech better? Stinks.

Oh okay. We'll blame the entire obviously monolithic industry then.

How about we blame the individuals within the industry that participate in and perpetuate the culture that thinks it's okay to use female sexuality to sell software products. It's patronising to men within the industry, it's off-putting to women within the industry and it makes the industry as a whole look extremely unprofessional from the outside.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#204

Post by antonapa »

There are a lot of very provoked males in these comments. Could this possibly correlate to the article which is based on experiences from someone not being a male in tech? It seems easier for most to get into lengthy counter arguments about why it isn't like the article states, rather than acknowledge that there might actually be a real problem here. How come so many female tech people seem to share these same experiences if it isn't structural?

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#205

Post by hobs »

lostcolony wrote: post #126
hobs wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually didn't know that. I googled and learned that it came into use in the 50s, interesting. Edited and changed. Edit: too old to edit! But still, thanks for the info.

I do not believe this thread just happened.

I smiled reading this comment. If you make a mistake and someone corrects you, I assume you also try to learn from it.

On HN, I believe that people are trying to make a positive contribution when the post, and while correcting people on the internet can seem pedantic, I take it to be a positive contribution and an opportunity to learn something.

Hopefully I don't make the same mistake twice!

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#206

Post by mathattack »

ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

Given that this is a hot topic... Wouldn't a tech company have an enormous competitive advantage if they treated women better?

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#207

Post by sergiosgc »

melindajb wrote: post #141
your_throwaway wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the same respect I treat my best friend? Well, first: my best friend is a woman. And could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a sexist joke? My aforementioned best friend (who I have had this conversation with) as well as most of the women friends I've had this conversation with agree that things like "dongle" jokes are hilarious . So are racist jokes (do you seriously not tell any racist jokes? Ever?…

Just because your best friend is a woman doesn't mean you're incapable of being a sexist. For example, she might be one of those women who enforce some pretty crappy old patriarchial shit. I have no idea. But it's not evidence you can use to say you aren't sexist. Are you trolling? I do not tell racist jokes. ever. period. Why would I ever risk offending someone I really care about for something so stupid? I enjoy Ch…

The fact of the matter is that not telling racist jokes probably means you are racist. Mocking people for their faults is the most basic kind of humour. Stuff kids do in early school, to the point of being mean, and then scale back to socially acceptable levels. However, this is an humour class that never completely disappears. Whole comedian careers have been built on it (look at the TV show Seinfeld for an example).

When you actively avoid mocking someone because they have a visibly different skin tone, subconsciously you believe this is something they should be ashamed of. Racist, qed.

It is as ok to mock someone for being "african-american" as it is mocking someone for their closed Texan accent. And it is ok. Mock away, and take it in stride when it's your turn to be the target.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#208

Post by GFischer »

Jugurtha wrote: post #172
ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

You have a kid, you look for a nanny to look after him. You put it on news-paper, there's a 45 year old dude who comes offering his services to look after your kid. Now tell me that you're so awesome that you'll not think what you are thinking right now. Exactly. People use stereotypes to save time. Many stereotypes are wrong, because you'll get them from CNN or Fox. People don't get on the news for being normal. Whe…

Reminds me of the "paradigms" video by consultant Joel Barker (based on Kuhn's work)

The TL;DR version is that everyone creates some "filters" as shortcuts for efficiently analyzing situations (paradigms).

transcript of the video here:

http://ocw.metu.edu.tr/pluginfile.php/3298/course/section/11...

Kuhn's work expanded:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thomas-kuhn/#3

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#209

Post by FLUX-YOU »

skeg wrote: post #191
route66 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think nobody is to blame here An industry who employs women as booth babes , apparently because staring at a booth babe sells tech better? Stinks.

So, all industries then.

Fracking would be so much more popular if they gave Stark Expo-like presentations with booth babes.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#210

Post by rada »

ap22213 wrote: post #70
drawkbox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of sexism. But also a hint of target marketing, a few things of note... Since there are less women in tech, technical people assume they are boring most people with technical jargon including most women (probabilistically). I bet if you dropped some technical info early it would knock it out of that mode quickly. I know when a women knows or doesn't know about tech I do change how I talk but I…

I think it's a good point, even if it's an unfortunate situation. I empathize with ericabiz - I'd love to see more balance between genders in software development. (and, sadly, I think it's only gotten worse since I started in the 90s). But, having gotten the 'eyes glazed over' look by every professional woman with whom I've tried to talk software within the last year, one just gets sort of trained after awhile. (may…

Alternatively, wear something that only a coder would wear.

You mean a dress? I am a coder and that's what I wear.

Yeah, you should definitely wear that next time.

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