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The Founder Visa (again)

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#101

Post by HistoryInAction »

argonaut wrote: post #86
gamblor956 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but you clearly did not have a top-notch immigration attorney if they advised you that a O1 visa was the best visa for your circumstances. The O1 is intended for people who are the top of their fields; not just those that are good. It's for people like Yao Ming (sports) or Lupita_Nyong'o (arts) that we want to steal from other countries. There were other visas that were more appropriate for…

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I'm not an immigration lawyer nor an immigration expert, so this is all anecdotal: I know a handful of startup founders, who were most certainly not at the top of their fields get O1 visas with the help of their top-top-tier investors / other things I'm not aware of (maybe speaking at second-rate conferences?). These were early stage startups that did not have much traction yet. Whil…

Quite true. I am not a lawyer, but I help founders hack immigration while pursuing the general solution through passing immigration reform that includes a startup visa.

For the O-1, you need to make the case that you're in the top 2-3% of your field. I often have founders make the case that if they can raise funding, then they are in the top 2-3% of startups—coming from a top ranked VC matters less than you'd think because the bureaucrats have never heard of most of these VCs or angels. On the other hand, the top ranked VCs are more likely to know about the O-1 and ways to make use of it.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#102

Post by [deleted] »

argonaut wrote: post #86
gamblor956 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but you clearly did not have a top-notch immigration attorney if they advised you that a O1 visa was the best visa for your circumstances. The O1 is intended for people who are the top of their fields; not just those that are good. It's for people like Yao Ming (sports) or Lupita_Nyong'o (arts) that we want to steal from other countries. There were other visas that were more appropriate for…

I'm not sure if I agree with you. I'm not an immigration lawyer nor an immigration expert, so this is all anecdotal: I know a handful of startup founders, who were most certainly not at the top of their fields get O1 visas with the help of their top-top-tier investors / other things I'm not aware of (maybe speaking at second-rate conferences?). These were early stage startups that did not have much traction yet. Whil…

[deleted]

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#103

Post by [deleted] »

kenneth wrote: post #75

As somebody who fought for a year to get an O1 visa (and an EB-1 green card, though that didn't quite work out), I can attest to the fact that the problem is not that it is an investor vs. a government official that is deciding whether one meets the criteria, but with the criteria themselves. I had a top-notch immigration attorney, and a solid case. I was the first employee of a company that now employs north of a hu…

[deleted]

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#104

Post by SeoxyS »

auganov wrote: post #92
kenneth wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EB visas are basically identical to the O visas, except for two differences: 1) the requirements are slightly more stringent, and 2) they are considered immigrant visas, as opposed to non-immigrant. ie., they are green cards. That said, I agree with you that the O1 was not a perfect fit for my situation, though I did end up receiving it, while being denied the EB-1. But I would challenge you to name another visa…

Could you share more? Basically what key tips would you give to a person trying to get it? Which 3/more of the 8 requirements did you base your application on?

My key tips would be as follow, in order of importance:

1. Get a good lawyer who puts your interests first. (Not your investor's or your employer's.)

2. Make yourself as visible as your can, even if it's not necessarily your comfort zone. Get on conference panels. Get into print newspapers as much as possible. Aim for old-style print newspapers: WSJ, NYTimes, and other national papers are great. Get into the print edition, not just on their websites.

3. If your company employs a PR firm, make sure they work for you. Have them prepare statements where you're the name attributed to the quote. Have them fight to get into conference panels. It's all bullshit, but it looks impressive when printed as documentation on a case file.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#105

Post by richardjordan »

teacup50 wrote: post #58
richardjordan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's absolutely the concern with this kind of approach. While I am confident in the good intentions of YCombinator, you can't do a program just for one incubator, and then you have to select them, and some bad ones would get in who'd exploit the situation. We need startup visas, but it can't be at the behest of investors.

> While I am confident in the good intentions of YCombinator I'm not. YC is already operating in a club of privilege, surrounded by a bubble of questionable intentions and inflated valuations that externalize the costs onto the wider economy. Now we should grant YC (and maybe "other investment firms") a privilege that bootstrapped companies like our own can never get? We've lost the H1-B lottery multiple years runnin…

Okay how about: ...while I see no benefit to my argument in needlessly being rude and questioning the intentions of YC on this topic in the comments section of their in house news organ... Clearer?

I think you'll find I clearly state this is a bad idea, even if you grant best intentions to those proposing it specifically.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#106

Post by HistoryInAction »

gamblor956 wrote: post #80
kenneth wrote: post #75

As somebody who fought for a year to get an O1 visa (and an EB-1 green card, though that didn't quite work out), I can attest to the fact that the problem is not that it is an investor vs. a government official that is deciding whether one meets the criteria, but with the criteria themselves. I had a top-notch immigration attorney, and a solid case. I was the first employee of a company that now employs north of a hu…

I hate to break it to you, but you clearly did not have a top-notch immigration attorney if they advised you that a O1 visa was the best visa for your circumstances. The O1 is intended for people who are the top of their fields; not just those that are good. It's for people like Yao Ming (sports) or Lupita_Nyong'o (arts) that we want to steal from other countries. There were other visas that were more appropriate for…

Perhaps you're referring to the E-2 treaty investor visa rather than one of the EB green cards?

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#107

Post by rdl »

I wish government and big institutions in general were set up to allow testing of hypotheses like this. We'd all be better off, but I fear what would happen is one or two of those 100 visa people would do a company which fails (or succeeds somewhat), gets in some minor unrelated legal problem (bar fight, whatever), and then a politician uses it as an example of why immigration is bad to tar their opposition.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#108

Post by HistoryInAction »

bradleyjg wrote: post #70
sweis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way to use the existing EB-5 Immigrant Investor visa? http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers... As far as I know, to qualify for an EB-5 you need to invest at least US$1M and create 10 jobs within 2 years. It might be a dumb idea, but could investors invest in an entity owned by a foreign founder, who would turn around and repatriate the investment in a US "new commercial entity", a…

I don't think so. From 8 CFR 204.6 Capital means cash, equipment, inventory, other tangible property, cash equivalents and indebtedness secured by assets owned by the alien entrepreneur, provided that the alien entrepreneur is personally and primarily liable and that the assets of the new commercial enterprise upon which the petition is based are not used to secure any of the indebtedness. For that to work, I think t…

Bradley nails it. I've looked into this in trying to implement startup visa since March 2011.

The EB-5 requires the capital to be personally owned, as it's intended for wealthy individuals to invest in a local business, usually a construction subcontractor or Vermont ski resort (EB-5 having been created by law sponsored by VT Senator Patrick Leahy back in 1990).

With a prepared lawyer, investors, and founding team, the legal paperwork CAN be set up to make use of an EB-5 (or E-2, at the $50k-150k level) on behalf of a founder, but most founders aren't aware of the hoops they need to jump through or preparation at an early enough stage. And once development has crossed various lines, to 'uncross' them to implement the correctly prepared setup raises other red flags within USCIS.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#109

Post by rdl »

sama wrote: post #74
wtpiu wrote: post #51

Hey, sam, great idea... how about you ask the US to give these 100 visas to ANOTHER firm first, if you really believe it. Otherwise, you sound like a selfish douche.

I actually ran the idea by a few other firms and they didn't seem quite as interested in international founders as we are. We're willing to do the work on this. If others are, that'd be fine with us too. We just don't want to wait 5 more years for anything to happen.

I suspect davemcclure/500 Startups would be totally on board with this; they're almost MORE international focused than YC is.

Re: The Founder Visa (again)

#110

Post by ahomescu1 »

hibikir wrote: post #98
ahomescu1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a) Most adventurous student entrepreneurs don't really MUST need a founder visa, they can use OPT. I think founders of Stripe did that. OPT is an extension of the F1 student visa, and only lasts for 12 months (29 with the STEM extension). In addition, it's a "non-immigration visa", which means that you can't apply for a green card with it (in fact, the whole idea of the visa is that you go back to your own country…

Normally you go from OPT to H1B, and from H1B to Green Card. How fast that process goes varies greatly

Yes, but the GP was proposing using OPT as a founder visa. In that case, you need to get your own startup to sponsor your H1B; that's pretty hard to do. I imagine you'd have to offer the market salary for "startup CEO" (whatever that is), post an ad for 30 days and then prove that you couldn't find an American to take that job (this is usually the process for regular H1B employees).

EDIT: It seems you can get a H1B where you work for your own company, it just needs special approval (there's a link to it earlier in this thread).

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