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America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#91

Post by pstuart »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #83
pstuart wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about brewers and distillers? Alcohol is responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths in the U.S. alone. Or maybe you like a drink now and then....

> Alcohol is responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths in the U.S. alone. Nope: _Abuse_ of Alcohol is responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths in the U.S. alone. You don't have to abuse cigarettes: you just use them, and they kill you.

The _abuse_ of anything is bad. Alcohol is still a societal danger. If you really want to protect people you should make it illegal.

But I bet you like a drink now and then, so you're willing to let other people die so you can get a buzz on.

Edit: can't reply to your reply so I'm appending here:

Your non reply confirms my guess. Because you like your drug of choice you are ok with it being legal, but other people can get fucked. Do you really think people are protected from drugs by making them illegal?

Have you ever given a moments thought to the death and destruction that comes from the War on Drugs itself? Do you have any notion of what a powerful weapon it has become in the war on humanity?

Or are you just a sanctimonious narcissistic nanny-stater? This madness continues because of support from people like you, you twit.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#92

Post by samstave »

test1235 wrote: post #7
samstave wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every cop should be required to were a gopro on their chest. Anyone who has any encounter with a cop should have protected rights to access and review that video as material evidence in their case.

... then maybe people will realise how unfairly vilified the police are, and what a tough job it actually is.

My dad was a cop in Oakland ca, during the 70s... I would not agree with your statement until i have videos proving otherwise.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#93

Post by nine_k »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #72
pstuart wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely addictive and harmful drugs Like alcohol? Should we make it illegal again to protect its victims?

> Like alcohol? Should we make it illegal again to protect its victims? It is very possible to use alcohol recreationally without becoming physically dependent on it. You can't say the same for drugs like heroin or meth.

Actually, you have to use heroin regularly for months to become physiologically addicted. The time is shorter than for alcohol but not instantaneous.

What catches people is a psychological addiction: heroin high just feels incredibly good (disclaimer: I did not try it so I translate other peoples' opinions). But the same can be said about alcohol, sugar, games like the infamous 2048, and great many other things.

Of course there are substances that would kill the user quickly and harm even from one use, like PCP or the infamous krokodil. But the same can be said about methanol, or sulphuric acid, or many other hazardous substances. These substances are appropriately packed, abundantly labeled with warnings — but their use is not banned.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#94

Post by AnthonyMouse »

baddox wrote: post #27
delucain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax evasion hurts society as a whole by reducing available resources for the programs that aid our country, and failure to provide child support harm the children and mothers that the child support was intended for in much the same way. Neither of these are victimless crimes. Victimless crimes are typically things that only harm the person/people involved in the crime, i.e. prostitution, recreational drug use, or gam…

> Tax evasion hurts society as a whole by reducing available resources for the programs that aid our country That argument only works if taxation provides a net benefit to society.

> That argument only works if taxation provides a net benefit to society.

How about this one then: At any given level of government spending and borrowing, tax evasion requires higher taxes to be imposed on those not engaged in tax evasion.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#95

Post by jcalvinowens »

pstuart wrote: post #91
jcalvinowens wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alcohol is responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths in the U.S. alone. Nope: _Abuse_ of Alcohol is responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths in the U.S. alone. You don't have to abuse cigarettes: you just use them, and they kill you.

The _abuse_ of anything is bad. Alcohol is still a societal danger. If you really want to protect people you should make it illegal. But I bet you like a drink now and then, so you're willing to let other people die so you can get a buzz on. Edit: can't reply to your reply so I'm appending here: Your non reply confirms my guess. Because you like your drug of choice you are ok with it being legal, but other people can…

> The _abuse_ of anything is bad. Alcohol is still a societal danger. If you really want to protect people you should make it illegal.

There is a huge difference between things that are fatal if abused, and things that are fatal if used as intended.

Surely you must see the difference?

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#96

Post by throwaway-icann »

humanrebar wrote: post #49
eqdw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, I meant what I said. Victimeless, and no it's not at all hard to define. Drugs, sex, gambling, bigamy, etc; basically laws based on Christian morality that try and tell you it's wrong to do things that only involve consenting adults. I generally agree with you, and do not at all believe Christian morality is a good basis for laws. That said, I have to play devil's advocate > Drugs In a world where the governmen…

> Also, ironically, bigamy is not a violation of christian morality; While the Old Testament contains many examples of polygamy, all of them are neutral or bad examples. Jesus strongly implies that a man should have one wife and Paul explicitly says so, at least for leaders of the church. From a practical standpoint, widespread polygamy (which usually means polygyny) can lead to imbalances in marriage opportunity bet…

I confused.

Are you advocating the New Testament over the Old, or making no distinction?

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#97

Post by jiggy2011 »

gnaritas wrote: post #53
humanrebar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, ironically, bigamy is not a violation of christian morality; While the Old Testament contains many examples of polygamy, all of them are neutral or bad examples. Jesus strongly implies that a man should have one wife and Paul explicitly says so, at least for leaders of the church. From a practical standpoint, widespread polygamy (which usually means polygyny) can lead to imbalances in marriage opportunity bet…

> If tax evasion is harmful to society, polygamy is harmful to ugly, poor men. It's less than desirable for ugly poor men, but doesn't mean victim. There is no victim involved in not being chosen as a mate by a women. If 5 women choose to marry the rich man, that's a choice between consenting adults and it harms no other party. No one is victimized by some other people getting married, whether it's because they're ga…

In an age of mass communication and easy global travel I could see it scaling up far beyond a rich guy marrying 5 women. It wouldn't be surprising to see certain superstars building harems counted by the hundred.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#98

Post by samstave »

btown wrote: post #50
girvo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a tough job? You bet. Are they unfairly vilified? Not a chance: police should be held to a higher moral standard than the general public, as they're the ones enforcing it. The best part of them wearing a GoPro is that everyone wins: civilians get to feel much safer, and police get to show that they're not as bad as they're made out to be. The issue arises when the cops have that introduced, and accusations of e…

I largely agree, but to act as a devil's advocate, what about cases when a police officer needs to resort to more heavy-handed methods when their life is in danger? In a dangerous area, a camera cannot capture the entire environment that a police officer must take in, contextual clues to a possibly dangerous situation drawn from a career of near brushes with disaster. So you might see corner cases where a police offi…

So your argument is for less data?

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#99

Post by jcalvinowens »

nine_k wrote: post #93
jcalvinowens wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like alcohol? Should we make it illegal again to protect its victims? It is very possible to use alcohol recreationally without becoming physically dependent on it. You can't say the same for drugs like heroin or meth.

Actually, you have to use heroin regularly for months to become physiologically addicted. The time is shorter than for alcohol but not instantaneous. What catches people is a psychological addiction: heroin high just feels incredibly good (disclaimer: I did not try it so I translate other peoples' opinions). But the same can be said about alcohol, sugar, games like the infamous 2048, and great many other things. Of c…

> Actually, you have to use heroin regularly for months to become physiologically addicted.

I don't think I'm remiss in saying that most who start using heroin do in fact get to that point, am I?

> These substances are appropriately packed, abundantly labeled with warnings — but their use is not banned.

Comparing sulphuric acid to heroin is a huge stretch for me. Sure, injecting sulphuric acid into your arm is definitely going to be a lot more harmful than heroin... but heroin is intended to be used as a drug, and is harmful when used as intended. The acid is not.

Re: America Has a Black-Market Problem, Not a Drug Problem

#100

Post by gamblor956 »

girvo wrote: post #15
test1235 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... then maybe people will realise how unfairly vilified the police are, and what a tough job it actually is.

Is it a tough job? You bet. Are they unfairly vilified? Not a chance: police should be held to a higher moral standard than the general public, as they're the ones enforcing it. The best part of them wearing a GoPro is that everyone wins: civilians get to feel much safer, and police get to show that they're not as bad as they're made out to be. The issue arises when the cops have that introduced, and accusations of e…

The proportion of bad cops to good cops is probably about the same as the proportion of pervert sexist programmers who like to sexually harass their female coworkers to non-perverted programmers. If your only exposure to either profession is what you see online, you'll have a dim view of both professions.

It's true that there is a large number of bad cops--but that's simply because there are a lot cops. Most cops hold themselves to a higher standard, but never show up in the news because it's not newsworthy when a cop does his job.

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