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Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

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Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#111

Post by JohnBooty »

spacedmountain wrote: post #62
siphor wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devils advocate, I think its possible that ADHD as a title is more harmful. Letting people fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy that may or may not have occurred otherwise. You say you were more than talented enough to finish said work in 5-6 hours but couldn't. To me that sounds like you thoroughly did not enjoy it and thus got distracted and 'procrastinated'. Why did you choose to work in an office if it wa…

I've found the opposite. About 6 months ago, I began to suspect I had ADHD. I went for help, and was diagnosed about a month ago. I haven't used it as an excuse, on the contrary I am now able to understand and catch my symptoms in the framework of the disorder. Maybe an analogy is trying to run while having different length legs. Once you realise this reality, you are able to understand, compensate, and adjust. I do…

I feel the same way. And congratulations on your progress!

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#113

Post by bad_user »

darkarmani wrote: post #104
bad_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that "hyperfocus" is a symptom of ADHD? I'm a developer, depending on how well rested I am I can go into that zone for 12 hours, sure, but I've always been like that since I was a child and if I want I can focus on subjects that don't bring me pleasure at all, it's all a matter of determination (edit: for me). Observing children at my wife's kindergarten that allegedly have ADHD, it's quite the opposite…

> Are you sure that "hyperfocus" is a symptom of ADHD? Yes. The name is a misnomer. It's a kind of executive function disorder. The ability to prioritize and focus at will on what is needed. Hyperfocus means that other things that might need to be a priority are being dropped. Hyperfocus is only good when it is on the right things. > it's all a matter of determination. That's good for you, but what about the people t…

So I wasn't saying that it's a matter of determination for people with real problems and wasn't in no way proposing it as a solution.

I was trying to suggest that there can't be a one size fits all - some people are fat because they practice impulsive eating at midnight and/or when upset and some people are fat because their metabolism is seriously malfunctioning (e.g. people with diabetes or a predisposition to diabetes). Can you agree that we've got at least these 2 categories? Can you see how these 2 categories require different types of treatment?

In regards to treatments sometimes doing more harm than good and my problem with an ADHD diagnosis from my experience in talking with people diagnosed as such is that the diagnosis itself is often without any hint to the root cause, being often about the symptoms. For example a magnesium deficit can lead to ADHD symptoms. If a person with a magnesium deficit takes drugs that don't treat this deficit, it's easy to see how the treatment can do harm.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#114

Post by NextUserName »

JohnBooty wrote: post #15

This article is so potentially harmful, even if it's more nuanced than the hyperbolic "ADHD Doesn't Exist" title would suggest. The reality is that -- whatever the underlying cause -- a lot of people struggle with attention span issues, and that these issues cause a lot of pain and unfulfilled potential. Even if ADHD medications are overprescribed Band-Aids, people benefit from them. We should try and find better dia…

For every one of you who takes the meds route, there are others who change careers, jobs, or learn exercises and methods to stay on task better. This has been the traditional way to deal with these problems.

I am not saying that I would not do any different if I were in your shoes, but changing your career to match your brain sure sounds more natural, and that is usually a good thing.

It is sad how science and technology has made normal people have a medical condition. A couple of hundred years ago you would have been a farmer rather than a banker. Now you are on mind altering drugs the rest of your life.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#115

Post by bad_user »

watwut wrote: post #97
bad_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that "hyperfocus" is a symptom of ADHD? I'm a developer, depending on how well rested I am I can go into that zone for 12 hours, sure, but I've always been like that since I was a child and if I want I can focus on subjects that don't bring me pleasure at all, it's all a matter of determination (edit: for me). Observing children at my wife's kindergarten that allegedly have ADHD, it's quite the opposite…

Six years old when they start school are expected to focus for 10-15 minutes. Kindergartner loosing attention after 5-10 minutes sounds to be exactly where he is supposed to be.

Yes, that's my opinion as well, but there is a lot of variation in the same age group. That number was pulled out of my ass btw, I only observed the differences while being there as a volunteer for various activities and from my wife's stories. And because of this variation, I think people are too eager to diagnose children with ADHD. And this is also a pity, since there may in fact be children with real problems that can't be separated well from children that are simply being children.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#116

Post by NextUserName »

Modern civilization has certainly invented ADHD. It used to be that if you had ADHD, you probably weren't a banker, lawyer or politician. You certainly would not work in a cubicle and rot away all day. You also lived 15 years longer than your sedentary counterpart. You would do a more physical job. Physical work often creates the necessary stimulation that so many of these ADHD cases need.

The argument that it just isn't fair that someone's mind is more suited for a desk job than someone else, so we should put them on equal footing by administering drugs the rest of their lives is a flawed and slippery slope mentality. Do we say the same the same thing for aspiring athletes who weren't born with the muscle mass to play pro football? "Lets make things fair and pump this kid full of roids so he can be an all pro linebacker"...

Severe ADHD sufferers I agree should be given medication, but the majority That I personally know (some of whom I worked with before and after meds) should just have changed careers. They still have problems while on the meds and also have to deal side effects from the mind altering drug they are using. Those I know who have either pursued alternate careers, or switched are much happier overall.

Imagine that, doing what traditionally, naturally was done leads to greater happiness... Wow

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#117

Post by DanielBMarkham »

JohnBooty wrote: post #98
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm with you. I also suffer from attention span issues. It's been a terrible thing to have to live with at times. But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on va…

But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on various external stimuli? I think it's perfectly fine that something like ADHD is a naturally- occurring personality tr…

I agree. It's the stigma that I'm talking about. Medicating yourself to adjust your ability to focus in order to perform your job? Like I said, count me in for that.

As a society we're going to have to accept that people are different, and that people may need various medications to adjust their performance capabilities to do various things. That doesn't make these people broken! Simply because you are taking some chemical to do X doesn't mean that you are disabled.

This is going to be a big leap for society. Up until now it's all been "If you need drugs, it must be because there's something wrong with you!" Well, not really. We're all "broken" in various degrees....

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#118

Post by sizzle »

zeidrich wrote: post #91
exelius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with ADHD tend to be very fast thinkers -- indeed this is part of the "problem" because while we're having a conversation with someone, we've thought through every consequence of what you just said before you finish your sentence. Because of this, we tend to get to "outside the box" type solutions much more quickly than others because we can effectively execute parallel tasks in our minds and come up with an a…

Disorder is maybe a harsh word, but my issue is that it runs counter to how I want to act. I want to do x, but I don't do it. It's really hard to explain to someone who doesn't feel the same way. It's not just a procrastination, it's a complete inability to adhere to a rational set of priorities. For most people task avoidance is due to stress or fear. For me it was simply that it disappeared from my head while I did…

wow you articulated this really well, I'm going to start explaining it like this to people. thank you

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#120

Post by runawaybottle »

NextUserName wrote: post #114
JohnBooty wrote: post #15

This article is so potentially harmful, even if it's more nuanced than the hyperbolic "ADHD Doesn't Exist" title would suggest. The reality is that -- whatever the underlying cause -- a lot of people struggle with attention span issues, and that these issues cause a lot of pain and unfulfilled potential. Even if ADHD medications are overprescribed Band-Aids, people benefit from them. We should try and find better dia…

For every one of you who takes the meds route, there are others who change careers, jobs, or learn exercises and methods to stay on task better. This has been the traditional way to deal with these problems. I am not saying that I would not do any different if I were in your shoes, but changing your career to match your brain sure sounds more natural, and that is usually a good thing. It is sad how science and techno…

Lets just be really clear about one thing, focus related drugs have been pretty common in academia and highly intellectual professions for decades now. Similarly, drugs like Ritalin are legal in Israel and can be had by anyone if they just get a script from a doc (no need for a diagnosis). In the long run I think we as a society need to grow up about this stuff, as use of some of these meds in moderation is fine either for light occasional use by those without severe focus issues, or prescription based moderate use by those that have ADHD.

Instead of sitting around and writing articles about 'omg millions of college kids and high intellectual work professionals take drugs, holy shit no one has ever taken drugs to create things before!', we just need to get real and be responsible about the reality. Don't stigmatize it, and allow people to responsibly explore the option with their doctors and see what works. Now if you disagree with this approach, you must argue that the health effects of moderate use is too severe, or the medication gives people an unfair advantage.

As far as changing careers, sure, that's an option an individual can explore. If they feel like they can deal with life acceptably with some medication, what's wrong with that? Are they assholes now? Frauds? Phillip K Dick was a anphetamine abuser (which no one advocates), but incredible writer. I would never dare suggest someone limit their potential if there are options they can reasonably try.

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