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Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

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Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#41

Post by trillium »

JimboOmega wrote: post #26
JohnBooty wrote: post #15

This article is so potentially harmful, even if it's more nuanced than the hyperbolic "ADHD Doesn't Exist" title would suggest. The reality is that -- whatever the underlying cause -- a lot of people struggle with attention span issues, and that these issues cause a lot of pain and unfulfilled potential. Even if ADHD medications are overprescribed Band-Aids, people benefit from them. We should try and find better dia…

So I agree this article is kind of a mess, the title misleading. This is the nature of ADHD. It's a magnet for people wanting to cry "overdiagnosed"! However, tolerance is a big question. Taking an ADHD medicine for the first week or so after not taking any for months prior is a pretty profound experience. But that tapers off. And leaves one to wonder... is my condition still improved? I have seen very few studies (t…

I've written a book on ADHD (Adult ADHD: What You Need to Know). I specifically looked into the tolerance questions. The doctors I found who are experts in the field and have treated a very large amount of patients say developing tolerance is unusual.

*Minor edit

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#42

Post by mrxd »

skywhopper wrote: post #37

The author appears to have a philosophical issue with the DSM itself, more than a useful argument. One could make the same complaint about many of the conditions defined in the DSM. The DSM faces an insurmountable challenge in attempting to taxonomize mental issues. In "reality" next to none of the syndromes and disorders there "exist", except in terms of collections of symptoms and treatments, and assumptions about…

> The author appears to have a philosophical issue with the DSM itself

I find that hard to believe. He argues that some cases of ADHD are caused by bipolar disorder and depression, which have DSM definitions.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#43

Post by siphor »

JohnBooty wrote: post #15

This article is so potentially harmful, even if it's more nuanced than the hyperbolic "ADHD Doesn't Exist" title would suggest. The reality is that -- whatever the underlying cause -- a lot of people struggle with attention span issues, and that these issues cause a lot of pain and unfulfilled potential. Even if ADHD medications are overprescribed Band-Aids, people benefit from them. We should try and find better dia…

To play devils advocate, I think its possible that ADHD as a title is more harmful. Letting people fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy that may or may not have occurred otherwise.

You say you were more than talented enough to finish said work in 5-6 hours but couldn't. To me that sounds like you thoroughly did not enjoy it and thus got distracted and 'procrastinated'. Why did you choose to work in an office if it was making you so unhappy?

It sounds like the drugs helped you live your life in an office setting, and is helping you get your life on that specific track.

I personally think there are a lot of societal pressures that makes one feel forced into a situation where they do not thrive.

But everyone around says that `you` have a specific problem. Why can't it be the other way around, everyone else doesn't fit to you?

These drugs seem to work great to make you live like everyone else. But why is that good? More boldly, why are the ADHD symptoms bad? Some of the most successful people probably exhibit these symptoms.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#44

Post by trillium »

Xylakant wrote: post #17
Pxtl wrote: post #2

I feel like this headline is terribly irresponsible. People with mental health issues suffer from a stigma associated with them, as well as denial of their suffering. Going out with both guns blazing to say their condition does not exist - not that it's a symptom of a larger problem, or that it's a gross oversimplification of a number of unrelated diseases, but instead the crude headline "doesn't exist" - that only m…

> Unless you have a better idea how to treat it Actually, if you read the article until the end, it proposes a better idea to treat it: Do not lump together all the conditions that lead to the symptoms together. Treat them as individual conditions with different causes and administer appropriate treatment - don't just hand them pills because it's simple. I sincerely doubt that stimulants are the best treatment we can…

I've personally known someone who has taken Ritalin type meds for 20+ years and did extremely well on it. In addition, my research indicates that tolerance to ADHD meds is uncommon and typically a person can be kept on one dose for years.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#45

Post by JoeAltmaier »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #31
JohnBooty wrote: post #15

This article is so potentially harmful, even if it's more nuanced than the hyperbolic "ADHD Doesn't Exist" title would suggest. The reality is that -- whatever the underlying cause -- a lot of people struggle with attention span issues, and that these issues cause a lot of pain and unfulfilled potential. Even if ADHD medications are overprescribed Band-Aids, people benefit from them. We should try and find better dia…

So I'm with you. I also suffer from attention span issues. It's been a terrible thing to have to live with at times. But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on va…

Why is it ok, if its 'natural' or a native trait? My eyes are bad; should I go around without glasses to prove some ethical point?

No, ADHD exists, my family exhibits it (3 generations now and counting), and it can be harnessed, treated or ignored with wildly differing outcomes.

Harnessing and treating it are vastly preferable to ignoring it.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#46

Post by trillium »

richardlblair wrote: post #34

Some folks are missing the point. Both the definition of ADHD and the treatment plan for it (in North America) are broken. In France, just 0.5% of children suffer from ADHD (opposed to ~5% in North America), and with those children they find the root cause of the issue and deal with that. They tend to shy away from medication. This is, more often than not, the proper treatment option for behavioural issues. People ne…

Off the top of my head, roughly 7% of kids in the US have ADHD and roughly 4-5% of adults have ADHD.

20% of boys of a certain age have currently been diagnosed with ADHD.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#47

Post by pessimizer »

Pxtl wrote: post #27
pessimizer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that a certain medical condition doesn't exist isn't a denial of the suffering of people who suffer, it's a denial of the label that's been placed on that suffering. As long as an attack on bad science continues to be interpreted by a segment of sufferers as a personal attack, sufferers groups will never exist as anything other than tools for drug companies to subvert the scientific process.

Imagine reading an article on punctuated equilibrium with the headline "Darwin is Wrong". Technically true, but WTF? Or a discussion of potential side-effects of the H1N1 vaccine with the headline "Vaccines Kill People". Just because it's true doesn't mean you don't need some tact. Also, I notice you've assumed I'm a sufferer. You might want to put away the "jump to conclusions mat" and maybe just try having a little…

>Also, I notice you've assumed I'm a sufferer.

Where did you notice that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_transparency

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#48

Post by darkarmani »

hellogoodby3 wrote: post #20
darkarmani wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but that doesn't disprove his argument His argument is ridiculous. ADHD is defined as symptoms and we don't have a full understanding of the underlying cause. Everyone knows that the drug treatment only treats the symptoms. If his argument is that we are only treating the symptoms then he hasn't added any knowledge. If he knows the "cure" why doesn't he make the claim: "I know how to cure ADHD?"

He can't "cure ADHD" because it is a symptom of many different things. He has to diagnose the patient and determine the underlying cause. He gave a list of potential causes that included vision problems, iron deficiency, and sleep problems. I imagine each of these have their own cure which in turn fixes the symptoms of ADHD. You are implying that ADHD only has a single cause, the author is disagreeing with you.

You and the author are both talking as if ADHD exists which counters his book title. I'm not the one making the bold claim -- the author is in his title.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#49

Post by ebiester »

richardlblair wrote: post #34

Some folks are missing the point. Both the definition of ADHD and the treatment plan for it (in North America) are broken. In France, just 0.5% of children suffer from ADHD (opposed to ~5% in North America), and with those children they find the root cause of the issue and deal with that. They tend to shy away from medication. This is, more often than not, the proper treatment option for behavioural issues. People ne…

No. The sufferers still suffer. They're just called "lazy" instead.

I too hope we can find a better solution one day, but I have all sorts of hopes for mental health treatment.

Re: Doctor: ADHD, as currently defined, does not exist

#50

Post by darkarmani »

visarga wrote: post #40
chimeracoder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After four years in college, which were a mix of promise and opportunities torpedoed by procrastination, I worked 10, 12, 14-hour days to finish work that I was more than talented enough to finish in 5 or 6 hours. My happiness suffered, health suffered, and relationships died. > Then I finally admitted that maybe it was a little more than a willpower issue. If it a matter of lacking willpower, why was I at the damn…

I don't like that it's classified as a disorder. It's a different style of cognitive activity, with its advantages and disadvantages.

> I don't like that it's classified as a disorder. It's a different style of cognitive activity, with its advantages and disadvantages.

I'm sure the same can be said about all of the disorders like depression or anything else.

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