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MH370: A different point of view

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Re: MH370: A different point of view

#141

Post by fafner »

graeham wrote: post #42
wikiburner wrote: post #8

This doesn't explain the zigzagging trajectory of the plane after its disappearance: Indeed, soon after MH370 disappeared, reports emerged that recordings of Malaysian military radar returns showed an unidentified track that could correspond to the flight turning left onto a westward course and descending. At the time it was difficult to assess the validity of that claim. It’s been bolstered, however, by a Reuters re…

Also doesn't address telemetry being turned off dozens of minutes before last radio comm.

Couldn't a fire in the electric turn off the telemetry minutes before it gets noticed?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#142

Post by mikeash »

chris_wot wrote: post #30
tomelders wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how an army of people from military and civil aviation organisations, including radar operators, Satellite Image analysis, air accident investigators, air traffic control and pilots, have been helpful in finding the plane in any way. This is an unusual situation, and none of the facts seem to make any sense. Who care's who is trying to make sense of what happened? If I was one of those passengers, I would…

You don't have to be curious. They are using data and have sent crews out looking for the plane. They have experts in their field coordinating the search. People who have expertise in radar, Satellite Image analysis, air accident investigations, air traffic control and actual ability to fly a plane. I was merely commenting that it's funny how there is one story that MH370 may have snuck under radar by shadowing anoth…

And yet they're doing a completely awful job of it.

They spent a week searching the wrong ocean for the plane. They had the thing on radar showing definitively that it was nowhere near the initial search area. They had satellite data showing it continued flying for hours after the supposed last contact.

I imagine the experts are not to blame here. But whoever is managing them is doing a terrible job of it.

Yeah, this amateur speculation is not useful. But at least it's not actively harmful. How much time and money was wasted searching the Gulf of Thailand before these clowns finally admitted that it was evident the plane wasn't anywhere near there? How much time was lost that could have been used to search places where the plane might actually be?

Decrying amateur speculation on the internet is silly. People are going to waste time regardless. Would you rather they do mental exercises or just look at cat memes? If you want to get upset at somebody related to MH370, there are far better targets.

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#143

Post by spartango »

graeham wrote: post #42
wikiburner wrote: post #8

This doesn't explain the zigzagging trajectory of the plane after its disappearance: Indeed, soon after MH370 disappeared, reports emerged that recordings of Malaysian military radar returns showed an unidentified track that could correspond to the flight turning left onto a westward course and descending. At the time it was difficult to assess the validity of that claim. It’s been bolstered, however, by a Reuters re…

Also doesn't address telemetry being turned off dozens of minutes before last radio comm.

It's being reported[1 - NYT] that the 107 "turn off time" is inaccurately quoted. It wasn't that the system was turned off at 107, as much as the next expected report at 137 was not received. This leaves a 30 minute window during which the system was disabled. Note also that the last voice communication was at 119, so it could have been disabled after that. We simply do not know.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlin...

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#144

Post by fafner »

bedhead wrote: post #69

In every instance of cabin fire, even ones where the fires spread extremely quickly and are eventually fatal such as SwissAir and ValueJet, the crew contacted the ground. And this was the case even when co-pilots were literally out of their seats actually fighting the fires. Yet every single time the ground was alerted about an emergency. This is what veteran pilots do. Also, for a fire to destroy the multiple electr…

What does it take to switch to a new ATC? AFAIK they were in the process of switching to the Vietnamese ATC and in fact the last message was a "good night" to the Malaysian ATC. Could the process of switching to the new ATC mean that they were left without communications in the deciding minutes?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#145

Post by spartango »

tom_morrow wrote: post #82
_nedR wrote: post #11

One problem with the theory: The first communication system was shut down before the pilot's last message 'All right, good night'. If it had been an accidental fire that caused the pilot to cycle the systems, I would imagine the last message would have been more along the lines of "Holy Smokey Bear, the plane's on fire!"

the last ACARS message was received before the ATC goodbye. the next ACARS message was scheduled to be sent after the goodbye, but it was never received. the time when the ACARS was disabled would be within this window.

The NYT is saying that some Malaysian government officials are confused about how ACARS works, leading to the confused reporting.

The above comment is accurate: the last ACARS message was received at 107, and the next one was expected at 137. The voice communication was logged at 119.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlin...

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#146

Post by DrJokepu »

mikeash wrote: post #138
DrJokepu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it definitely won't be bloggers and armchair investigators who figure it out. Unfounded speculation is irresponsible and immature behaviour the very least.

Why is it irresponsible and immature? It's an interesting puzzle. Lots of people like puzzles. Trying to figure it out is good exercise for the brain. It doesn't cause any harm. So what's the problem?

Because this is simply not a puzzle or a brainteaser you can solve from your armchair. You can't just Google a few things, read a few pages on Wikipedia, watch a documentary on Discovery Channel about aviation disasters and maybe read the comments on Hacker News as well and then use logical deduction and Hegelian dialectic to formulate to a conclusion. Dont't you see that?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#147

Post by mikeash »

DrJokepu wrote: post #146
mikeash wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it irresponsible and immature? It's an interesting puzzle. Lots of people like puzzles. Trying to figure it out is good exercise for the brain. It doesn't cause any harm. So what's the problem?

Because this is simply not a puzzle or a brainteaser you can solve from your armchair. You can't just Google a few things, read a few pages on Wikipedia, watch a documentary on Discovery Channel about aviation disasters and maybe read the comments on Hacker News as well and then use logical deduction and Hegelian dialectic to formulate to a conclusion. Dont't you see that?

That does not answer my question at all. Just because you can't solve it conclusively with Google doesn't mean that it's not an interesting exercise to work on. Again, what's the problem? It's harmless, it's interesting, why fight it?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#148

Post by goodcanadian »

royprins wrote: post #126

When I was considering a similar scenario, I looked at the airports around there and found Kota Bharu to be much closer. The runway may not be similar in length, but if your plane is on fire, you would not be picky. It is at least 200km closer than Langkawi. The flight path was also close to Kota Bharu, so one theory does not exclude the other. Maybe somebody with more knowledge of an autopilot can offer some insight…

Apparently, the autopilot can put it into a holding pattern:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

Whether or not it would, I suppose, would depend on how it was programed.

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#149

Post by webmonkeyuk »

Implicated wrote: post #13
wikiburner wrote: post #8

This doesn't explain the zigzagging trajectory of the plane after its disappearance: Indeed, soon after MH370 disappeared, reports emerged that recordings of Malaysian military radar returns showed an unidentified track that could correspond to the flight turning left onto a westward course and descending. At the time it was difficult to assess the validity of that claim. It’s been bolstered, however, by a Reuters re…

or the climb to 45k

I don't know much about VNAV but couldn't have they configured a vertical ascent rate with no upper ceiling?
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