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MH370: A different point of view

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Re: MH370: A different point of view

#131

Post by nickff »

ams6110 wrote: post #67
cornholio wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an emergency, the safest way to burn fuel is to reach the closest airport and then circle it. Not head to a more distant airport which you might not reach because of the very emergency. All hypotheses will invalidate the major premise: that the pilots chose that particular heading not randomly, but in a calculated attempt to reach the nearest airport because of an emergency. Basically, no matter where the plane wo…

In a dire emergency, you would just dump the fuel and not try to burn it off.

Or even land heavy.

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#132

Post by haberman »

keepontruckin wrote: post #23

I took a flight on a 777 from Dulles to London a couple years ago. A few hours into the flight the captain announced a suspected cabin fire and the smell of smoke in the cockpit. The crew shut off all the circuits they didn't need to fly the plane, the captain took a left turn, and we made an emergency landing at Reykjavik. Just sayin'.

You could just as easily take the same facts and say:

"I took a flight on a 777 where there actually was a cabin fire (or at least the crew thought so). But our pilot never lost contact with the ground and we landed safely -- we certainly didn't disappear for over a week, fly far beyond our emergency landing opportunity, or perform bizarre evasive maneuvers. Just sayin'."

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#133

Post by Zancarius »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #58

Sequence of events this implies when coupled with other information: 1. Electrical fire starts, takes out ADS-B transponder, pilots unaware and continue the flight as normal 2. They radio a goodbye as they leave ATC, still unaware of anything which means that a fire has taken out a transponder and they are unaware of that fact 3. The fire is discovered. The crew put on full-face oxygen masks and the pilot makes for t…

> and if that were the case then I would expect sonar operators over a large part of the region to hear the black box locator

Apparently the pingers are only audible for 2-3 km [1].

[1] http://www.hydro-international.com/issues/articles/id1098-Ai...

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#134

Post by Zancarius »

synthos wrote: post #117
jrs235 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not sold on the cabin fire theory, could flying to FL450 have been an attempt to snuff the fire out?

That's an interesting hypothesis, one I have not heard discussed yet.

I would speculate that in the case of a fire, the subsequent change in altitude was probably more likely the result of loss of control, or the autopilot was still connected and became confused by the avionics/instrumentation sending it bad/invalid data.

The latter part seems fairly unlikely, but I have no idea what a fire would do if it took out or disrupted the instrumentation, flight computers, etc..

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#135

Post by jebus989 »

keepontruckin wrote: post #95
jebus989 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But a gas leak recently brought down two buildings in Harlem and that's akin to someone posting, "we had a gas leak and I just called the gas company, they switched it off. Just sayin". Point is: things don't always go to plan, and successfully avoiding disaster once does not necessarily set a precedent.

My post was simply to share useless aviation information in a show of solidarity with everyone else, but it would be more accurate to say it was akin to someone saying "we had a gas leak over the middle of the ocean, at night, it was dark and sweltering and smelled like smoke and everyone was freaking out but they made us stay inside for a couple more hours until we finally landed on a runway lit up by emergency vehi…

"Akin" in that your second version has the complete opposite tone and implicit meaning to your original post?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#136

Post by goatforce5 »

Arjuna wrote: post #122
PaulRobinson wrote: post #58

Sequence of events this implies when coupled with other information: 1. Electrical fire starts, takes out ADS-B transponder, pilots unaware and continue the flight as normal 2. They radio a goodbye as they leave ATC, still unaware of anything which means that a fire has taken out a transponder and they are unaware of that fact 3. The fire is discovered. The crew put on full-face oxygen masks and the pilot makes for t…

"The only way we'll get to understand that is by finding the black box which of course would explain the whole thing anyway." I appreciate that there are technical challenges and costs associated with the following idea, but it would be quite an interesting project to create a system that would transmit Flight Data Recorder (FDR) information to a ground location. Off the top of my head, it would need to be flexible,…

Why Do Airlines Keep ‘Black Box’ Flight Data Trapped on Planes?

"In an airplane tragedy, however, the information stored in the so-called black box inevitably ends up inside a wreck. This seems like a terrible place to keep the clue you need to find most."

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-10/malaysia-air...

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#137

Post by tlrobinson »

Arjuna wrote: post #122
PaulRobinson wrote: post #58

Sequence of events this implies when coupled with other information: 1. Electrical fire starts, takes out ADS-B transponder, pilots unaware and continue the flight as normal 2. They radio a goodbye as they leave ATC, still unaware of anything which means that a fire has taken out a transponder and they are unaware of that fact 3. The fire is discovered. The crew put on full-face oxygen masks and the pilot makes for t…

"The only way we'll get to understand that is by finding the black box which of course would explain the whole thing anyway." I appreciate that there are technical challenges and costs associated with the following idea, but it would be quite an interesting project to create a system that would transmit Flight Data Recorder (FDR) information to a ground location. Off the top of my head, it would need to be flexible,…

Alternatively, why don't planes have floating EPIRBs (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon) or even floating black boxes? They could be attached to one or more points on the plane where they're likely to be released if wreckage sinks.

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#138

Post by mikeash »

DrJokepu wrote: post #19
tomelders wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying the best way to figure out what happened to MH370 is to do nothing, don't think, don't have any ideas, in no way make any effort to interpret the facts as they present themselves or try to fill in the blanks with educated guesses? Nice plan.

Well it definitely won't be bloggers and armchair investigators who figure it out. Unfounded speculation is irresponsible and immature behaviour the very least.

Why is it irresponsible and immature?

It's an interesting puzzle. Lots of people like puzzles. Trying to figure it out is good exercise for the brain. It doesn't cause any harm. So what's the problem?

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#139

Post by winslow »

graeham wrote: post #42
wikiburner wrote: post #8

This doesn't explain the zigzagging trajectory of the plane after its disappearance: Indeed, soon after MH370 disappeared, reports emerged that recordings of Malaysian military radar returns showed an unidentified track that could correspond to the flight turning left onto a westward course and descending. At the time it was difficult to assess the validity of that claim. It’s been bolstered, however, by a Reuters re…

Also doesn't address telemetry being turned off dozens of minutes before last radio comm.

The following is speculation:

If there was an electrical fire maybe it disabled the telemetry system before the last radio comm without them knowing? I don't know all the systems on the plane and what the possibility is of an electrical fire going unnoticed for ~12 minutes. That's my only guess for why the transponder was turned off before last radio comm IF we assume this article/post's point of view is correct.

Re: MH370: A different point of view

#140

Post by nlh »

bdonlan wrote: post #129
nlh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing because concentrated O2 is extremely flammable and would be fuel for a fire, when the opposite would be needed. Rapid fire-suppressant systems basically work by sucking all of the oxygen from the room/space as quickly as possible.

The flight deck O2 masks are specifically designed to provide positive pressure to avoid smoke inhalation in the event of a fire. There's no real reason not to use them - if the fire is close enough that it would matter you're already dead.

Makes sense to me. Thanks for clarification.
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