Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)? • Hacker News Board

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#251

Post by iambateman » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 2:45 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #214

smoyer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"points toward the involvement of one or more state actors" I agree ... and so I think it's become useful to identify the skills and knowledge of each of the jet's passengers. You have to assume that, in this case, the plane was hijacked in order to obtain one of the passengers. Terrorism simply doesn't make sense!

Isn't this an awfully complex way to get to one individual? Can't you just nab him at the airport at either end if you're so sure he's on the flight?

If you're trying to get one individual or even a group, STEALING A PLANE out of the air and drawing international scrutiny seems like a terrifically inefficient way of doing it.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#252

Post by coherentpony » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

Again, merely wild speculation.

I'd be ok with people not upvoting submissions that do nothing more than fear mongering.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#253

Post by donutz » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #190

ry0ohki wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plane itself is worth about 6 tons of gold

Sold where and how? 2 tons of gold are something that a reasonable person can actually expect to be able to convert into money without undue risk to his person. A stolen airplane isn't. People keep talking about how this needs so much sophistication that it's probably a state action. All I can see is something that one person with good planning could have done. That is, the pilot or the co-pilot waits until the other…

a reasonable person can convert 2 tons of gold to cash without undue risk?

Given that 2 tons of stolen gold can't be legally sold, I'd suspect that anyone with that kind of cash on hand might be the kind it would be risky to do business with...

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#254

Post by aestra » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:03 PM UTC

ccarpenterg wrote: post #157

jballanc wrote: post #45

The folks over at airliners.net have pointed out that the 777's collision avoidance system only works if both planes' transponders are turned on. That doesn't mean this scenario is impossible, but it does raise the level of sophistication required. Sadly, I feel like whatever happened, the amount of sophistication involved increasingly points toward the involvement of one or more state actors. If that's the case, I'm…

I hope you're wrong. If a state was involved that would mean that boarding a plane is extremely dangerous from now on. This case is really suspicious but I still think this was just an accident.

Not really...

Nations (and other organizations) have been carrying out false flag operations since forever. In the 1960s there was Operation Northwoods - a plan by the US government to bomb US civilian aircraft and plant evidence it was Cuba who did it to justify invading Cuba. The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on it and it would have been implemented except JFK wouldn't sign off on it.

So even if this had nation state involvement, it is about the same danger to get on an aircraft as it always has been, or go out in a crowded event, or theater, school, etc... which are also targets for terrorism. Example would be the failed Lavon Affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#255

Post by LoganCale » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:04 PM UTC

rajbala wrote: post #208

Buge wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they have satellite phones? Over the ocean there is no cell reception.

If there was indication that something was awry the passengers would have had plenty of time before reaching the open ocean to use various forms of communication.

It is very unlikely (but has occasionally happened) that a cellphone would get reception at 35,000 feet.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#256

Post by Tyrannosaurs » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 PM UTC

fafner wrote: post #200

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways to cover that - not all the hijackers will be with the plane. All they've got to do is keep some proof of the negotiation for the survivors to publish and that would be easily disprovable. Besides, if they knew where the plane is to bomb it this would be a hostage situation right now. They might be in a country which wouldn't welcome the incursion but I can't see the Chinese being overly bothered about…

But why not make it public?

Because publicly people don't negotiate with terrorists.

Now we all know that that isn't true so it may be they felt that keeping it quiet (for now at least) would give them a better chance of getting what they want.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#257

Post by Shivetya » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 PM UTC

herbig wrote: post #244

jballanc wrote: post #45

The folks over at airliners.net have pointed out that the 777's collision avoidance system only works if both planes' transponders are turned on. That doesn't mean this scenario is impossible, but it does raise the level of sophistication required. Sadly, I feel like whatever happened, the amount of sophistication involved increasingly points toward the involvement of one or more state actors. If that's the case, I'm…

I think the level of sophistication required increasingly points to a much simpler explanation than terrorism.

why do people underestimate what terrorist groups are capable of? Some have training from various countries and quite a few have financial and material backing.

If anything, the common theme on this site was to find every possible explanation other than terrorism. Sorry to be the party pooper, but there are people out there who operate without regard to our beliefs and at times love to exploit the stories we tell ourselves.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#258

Post by ianhawes » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:10 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #239

smoyer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"points toward the involvement of one or more state actors" I agree ... and so I think it's become useful to identify the skills and knowledge of each of the jet's passengers. You have to assume that, in this case, the plane was hijacked in order to obtain one of the passengers. Terrorism simply doesn't make sense!

Or they were hijacking a plane to stuff it full of chemical weapons / radioactive material (think dirty bomb) with the intent of flying it over a major city and detonating it. It would be hard to do it in a western nation, but if you were aiming at a city near the "frontier" of India, Pakistan, etc. a bad actor could likely execute the plan before the jets they scramble could intercept the jet. There's a lot of bad s…

Except your plan has one fatal flaw: assuming the plane was stolen to be used as a missile.

If this were ISI or a state level actor, the absolute riskiest part would be hijacking a plane in flight with passengers. You risk them uprising, getting the word out about the hijacking, and then you'd have to execute them once you land. Why not steal an empty plane at an airport or buy an older plane through an intermediary?

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#259

Post by Tyrannosaurs » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:10 PM UTC

sgt101 wrote: post #185

zmb_ wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it easier to go around hitting 20 people on the back the the head and then figuring out how to drive them to North Korea at the back of a van without being detected? If your goal is to get a large team of semiconductor engineers against their will, I can hardly think of a more efficient way than simply flying the plane they are on to your country.

How many would come to NK for $1m a year? If I were building a team of engineers in NK that's what I'd be offering rather than an incredibly risky and difficult manuver like this...

And that way you probably get better work out of them than if you're holding them hostage.

On the upside if they are holding a bunch of really smart guys hostage and giving them stuff to build things with then a real Iron Man suit is surely inevitable.

Re: Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

#260

Post by ianhawes » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:14 PM UTC

twistedpair wrote: post #249

ekianjo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, I feel like whatever happened, the amount of sophistication involved increasingly points toward the involvement of one or more state actors. If that's the case, I'm starting to doubt that we'll ever find out what happened to this plane... Indeed. And not just the "what", but the "why" as well.

Why? Three cases of pilots committing suicide with big jets in the last few years. Silk Air 185, Egypt Air 990, LAM 470. So either (a) it's an act of war by another country or (b) the far simpler a pilot committed suicide. However, it if was a state actor, would you as the US tell people that? Wars cost trillions. Perhaps just sweep it under the rug.

The current administration wants a reason to increase the military budget, so they would tell people. Aside from that, if it likely got out that US officials knew, it would be a scandal of epic proportions.