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Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

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Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#161
post #30
post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

GitHub is known to have a dubstep and IPA culture. If they want to be a standard bearer for feminism in tech, the transition is going to be difficult and they are going to take some hits. The two cultures don't mix well. It sounds like GitHub is going to have to become more stale and corporate to survive as a larger company, which is inevitable, but hastened by their own choices.

Gasp, not Dubstep!!1!

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#162
post #38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think needed to be fixed? You are assuming that everything Julie states is right...

I am not assuming everything Julie states is right. For statement "the culture of Github needs some fix" to be true, it only needs only some of Julie's statements to be true. And looks like from Chris's statement, that is true (otherwise why did they "punish" founder & his wife).

They didn't punish anyone yet.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#163
post #114

Julie was banging a co-worker so why is she acting surprised when drama happened ? I don't get it.

I work for a large, bureaucratic company. The only restrictions on dating (and we have a ton of HR rules) is about reports. As long as you neither of you report to each other or have any influence on position etc., corporate has no problem with dating.

I can't imagine a startup caring unless you actually cause the drama, and this doesn't sound like that case.

Grow up.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#164
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is a terrible assumption to make. This line is basically saying "we're taking this seriously", because if they said anything less, then regardless of the truth of the matter, they'd be skinned alive. Ironically, it's knee-jerk black and white comments like yours that create this kind of press release. You've already convicted them in your mind…

Fair enough about the HR person (who probably acted in fear for their job), but how often does the co-founder of a very successful start up get put on leave within 24 hours of an article published on Techcrunch?

Have you considered the possibility that both parties are in the wrong? That Horvath does have something of a point, but she's massively overblown her experiences and read the wrong meaning into things?

Life is stickier than tabloids lead you to believe, and in such a case as I've suggested, it's not hard to see the founders talking about how 'bob' should take a brief sabbatical while the Internet Hate Machine looks for another target. The other founders might love 'bob' and want to spare him from internet fury. Or they might loathe him and were looking for a way to put him in his place. Or they might be taking a pragmatic PR-smart move. Or 'bob' might have said "I was looking to take leave and go to Europe for a holiday, this would be a good time, eh?". Or a dozen other situations. We just don't know.

And that's just fire-fighting - if you want Github to do a meaningful investigation, then you need to have the investigators being as dispassionate as possible, rather than doing it while fending off the hordes at the gate. And since a founder is involved, the investigators pretty much have to be the other founders. And that meaningful investigation includes talking to staff outside of the bubble of hysteria that's currently going on. And that meaningful investigation may indeed largely exonerate Github.

The thing is that you don't have enough information to pre-convict the way you have.

And, frankly, on a personal note: fuck this automatic calling for the sacking of someone when thing go awry. It's truly fucked up. Re-evaluate? No. Retrain? No. Reassign? No. "Someone has to suffer" for the mob's one-eyed rage. Fuck that shit. Sometimes a sacking is the appropriate course of action, but that's not for the mob to decide, because the mob doesn't have anything like close access to the story.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#165
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the statement is good. I only wish they'd addressed the concerns that were raised regarding them having access to/messing with private repos.

I didn't quite read the statement as saying the founder's wife had access to private repos. I just read it as saying that the founder's wife claimed to have access to private company communication, specifically chat logs only intended for github employees. But a statement clearing the concerns up would be nice.

You're right - the TechCrunch article didn't mention access to private repos - only private employee chatrooms. But the question was raised here on HN, asking if she did have access to private employee chatrooms what else might she or others have access to? If the security is lax in one area, one might assume it's lax in others as well. But it's just speculation - but it has merit non the less

[edit: spelling]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#166
post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

> This narrows down the choices: the "founder" who is the cause for all this drama is either PJ Hyett or Tom Preston-Werner. Julie Horvath follows both Chris Wanstrath and PJ Hyett on Twitter, but not Tom Preston-Werner (at least as shown by Twitter's "Followed by people you follow" banner). Of course, this could just be a coincidence.

I can't find anything on PJ Hyett's family but Tom Preston-Werner is married.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#168
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the statement is good. I only wish they'd addressed the concerns that were raised regarding them having access to/messing with private repos.

I didn't quite read the statement as saying the founder's wife had access to private repos. I just read it as saying that the founder's wife claimed to have access to private company communication, specifically chat logs only intended for github employees. But a statement clearing the concerns up would be nice.

I personally just read the quote as meaning the wife knew her husband's passwords (and where to find company chat logs). Theoretically, this might give her access to private repositories, but only to the extent the founder in question does. A problem, to be sure, but its not like they were giving away credentials to people.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#169
post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

> This narrows down the choices: the "founder" who is the cause for all this drama is either PJ Hyett or Tom Preston-Werner.

https://twitter.com/tpdubs2/status/415224900782014464

> TheresaPrestonWerner @tpdubs2

> Found the best, most comfortable chair at GitHub HQ. Office seems pretty empty today.

Among several other tweets here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=github%20from%3Atpdubs2&src=typ...

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#170
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not PR, HR (i.e Human Resources). In other words, someone who should have been working to clean up this mess months ago.

Indeed, but it takes time to clean up a culture (if it's at all possible). This response suggests that their HR hire is doing his or her job well, at least now.

This response suggests that ...

Disagree. The situtation is highly ambiguous. HR is a game of "the best victories are wars not fought". And so in some regards, its too late.

On the other-hand, if HR was on the right...they were "over-ruled" by more than one of CEO/founders/sr execs. This surely means this person has diminished capacity to act. If not due to competence, than due to "lack of formiddableness".

Because it shouldn't take a public PR nightmare to convince (ie, show some leadership) that following HR101 is a good idea.

It is only the rare edge case that this person was in perfect pitch (and ignored) yesterday and will be held in higher regard tomorrow.

So, this is why things are not clear cut here for anyone.

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