Update on Julie Horvath's Departure • Hacker News Board

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#71

Post by __david__ » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:27 AM UTC

laureny wrote: post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

> > We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer.

> Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true.

Hardly. It just says they are paying attention to the accusations and taking things seriously. I think they responded in a very positive way, and more transparently than I would have expected. But "we're looking into it" in no way validates or admits any fault on their behalf at this point.

> This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice.

So they should just fire them based on one person's complaints? If everything Julie accused them of is true, I think they should be fired, but that doesn't mean they should go off half-cocked, firing everyone involved until they can investigate and determine exactly what happened.

And that doesn't happen over night.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#72

Post by Crito » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:27 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #55

as one if the most important corrective actions, Github needs to bring back cubicles or better even offices, so that a lot of the "increased collaboration and communication" between Julie and the founder's wife ( like when the wife would sit near Julie and stare at her) just wouldn't be able to happen. edit: another thing that would help - it is to have some older, like in the their 40s, people in the workforce. I me…

Oh please, I've worked in open office spaces were being harassed by a founders wife could have never happened. The presence or absence of chest-high modular walls has nothing to do with this story.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#73

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:27 AM UTC

slm_HN wrote: post #53

peterjancelis wrote: post #14

They are lucky it's not the CEO-founder. Easier to put a non-CEO on leave than a CEO I imagine.

Sounds like you're so desperate to out the guy that you have to make a weird, nonsensical post. If you really want to out him that badly just man up an post his name rather than trying to weasel around with "Easier to put a president on leave than a CEO".

[deleted]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#74

Post by comrh » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:29 AM UTC

pekk wrote: post #49

leccine wrote: post #13

Well Julie's story stinks. Let me just quote the last thigs she wrote and work backwards from that. "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to m…

Let's consider what it means for this GitHub hula hoop party to be "unsafe." What is the dangerous thing that Horvath thought would happen? Do we really consider the suggestion plausible that GitHub's allowance of hula-hooping-watching will result in a gang rape in its offices?

Quite the stretch you've outlined. But maybe "unsafe" could mean the exact things Horvath mentions happened to her like coworkers visiting her at her home to make advances.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#75

Post by Recoil42 » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:29 AM UTC

laureny wrote: post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

>Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true.

No, it isn't. It's standard operating procedure pretty much everywhere to put employees on leave while an investigation is conducted. It shouldn't be construed as an admission at all.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#76

Post by fmitchell0 » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:29 AM UTC

i guess no one sees the irony that validation in their mind comes in the form of the co-founder 'owning up'.

if he had been silent or refuted the statements (maybe on advice from their lawyers), would that undermine Julie's credibility?

if so, why?

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#77

Post by collypops » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:30 AM UTC

nfoz wrote: post #43

flylib wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't appear so. They did get an HR person, but an experienced one? Not a chance. No experienced HR person would have let any of that get as far as it got. That HR person should probably be put on leave or be fired as well. > that person came on board in January 2014 most of the things that had happened predated the HR person coming on, but you do have a point, the wife thing should of stopped since January

> should of stopped should have stopped

Thank god you're here. This topic is saddening enough without people making grammar errors too.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#78

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:30 AM UTC

laureny wrote: post #21

> We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. Pretty much a full admission that everything that Julie said is true. This is great news, but putting these people on leave seems to be too nice. It's clear that these two people obey ethics that are in direct oppposit…

[deleted]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#79

Post by bogs_carut » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:30 AM UTC

joshyeager wrote: post #63

pekk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised nobody sees sexism in the way that the wife has been stigmatized.

I think that the wife's actions would have been even less acceptable if she were male. The stigma is caused by the repeated unprofessional actions she did, and made worse by the fact that she was not even an employee.

Why should gender affect the acceptability of one's behavior?

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#80

Post by trhway » Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 3:30 AM UTC

leccine wrote: post #13

Well Julie's story stinks. Let me just quote the last thigs she wrote and work backwards from that. "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to m…

>What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them.

and what would be an alternative? "A man mustn't look at a hula-hooping woman. " (what would be a punishment for the violation? - something from middle ages Arab world comes to mind, a definite cure for the desire to watch hula-hooping women :)