Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MIT faulted over its support for students

bostonglobe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 67 posts

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#11

Post by goldbeck »

yourcelf wrote: post #7
res0nat0r wrote: post #2

Headline: MIT faulted over its support for students Caption under picture: Critics say MIT also should have intervened in the case of Aaron Swartz. Swartz was never a student at MIT.

If you'd like MIT students who were impacted by the administration's callous lack of support, consider: - the MBTA "hackers", 2008: http://www.openmediaboston.org/content/mbta-suit-against-mit... - Star Simpson, 2007: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2... - Ryan McKinley's "Government Information Awareness", 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Information_Awarene... - Andrew "Bunn…

Definitely! What's pretty cool is that this is exactly the response of MIT administration as well http://tech.mit.edu/V134/N7/tidbit.html

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#12

Post by rayiner »

suprgeek wrote: post #5

This has been long time coming. These days if a student or young person does what Steve Jobs (phone device) or Bill Gates (exploiting bugs for more Computer time) did and got away with, they face lawsuits and decades in Jail. It is up to Universities like MIT to aggressively intervene in these cases and ensure that young people are free to (some extent) break systems and exploit system weaknesses in the interest of l…

The world in which Jobs and Gates grew up was very different, one in which computers didn't play as vital a role in everyday life, and compromising a computer system could cause less in the way of damage, simply because people did not rely on them as heavily. In our modern world, saying that young people should be free to break and exploit systems has very different implications.

We do not tolerate young people "learning" how to pick locks by breaking into peoples' homes, and we certainly don't argue that universities have a moral obligation to support such "learning." So why should it be different in the digital world? There was a time maybe when we tolerated that because you could do a lot less damage breaking into a computer than breaking into a house, but that time is long gone.

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#13

Post by sliverstorm »

yourcelf wrote: post #7
res0nat0r wrote: post #2

Headline: MIT faulted over its support for students Caption under picture: Critics say MIT also should have intervened in the case of Aaron Swartz. Swartz was never a student at MIT.

If you'd like MIT students who were impacted by the administration's callous lack of support, consider: - the MBTA "hackers", 2008: http://www.openmediaboston.org/content/mbta-suit-against-mit... - Star Simpson, 2007: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2... - Ryan McKinley's "Government Information Awareness", 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Information_Awarene... - Andrew "Bunn…

Your parents point is not that MIT has done no wrong, but that Swartz is not the right example.

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#14

Post by sillysaurus3 »

rayiner wrote: post #12
suprgeek wrote: post #5

This has been long time coming. These days if a student or young person does what Steve Jobs (phone device) or Bill Gates (exploiting bugs for more Computer time) did and got away with, they face lawsuits and decades in Jail. It is up to Universities like MIT to aggressively intervene in these cases and ensure that young people are free to (some extent) break systems and exploit system weaknesses in the interest of l…

The world in which Jobs and Gates grew up was very different, one in which computers didn't play as vital a role in everyday life, and compromising a computer system could cause less in the way of damage, simply because people did not rely on them as heavily. In our modern world, saying that young people should be free to break and exploit systems has very different implications. We do not tolerate young people "lear…

Be careful what you wish for. History has shown that countries which are free to think will eventually outthink those that aren't. And what you're arguing for is restriction of thought.

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#16

Post by rayiner »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world in which Jobs and Gates grew up was very different, one in which computers didn't play as vital a role in everyday life, and compromising a computer system could cause less in the way of damage, simply because people did not rely on them as heavily. In our modern world, saying that young people should be free to break and exploit systems has very different implications. We do not tolerate young people "lear…

Be careful what you wish for. History has shown that countries which are free to think will eventually outthink those that aren't. And what you're arguing for is restriction of thought.

You're free to think whatever you want. This is about interfering with other peoples' property.

Personally, I think people over-romanticize hacker culture in saying it's a key part of technological progress. Scientific advancement is a process that overwhelmingly happens purposefully, not through tinkering. It's DARPA funding defense contractors to invent TCP/IP, not some kids "learning" by breaking into other peoples' property.

The stuff Bill and Steve did--they did it because they were smart kids and could get away with it. But saying it was a necessary component of their future success is just romanticization.

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#17

Post by [deleted] »

suprgeek wrote: post #5

This has been long time coming. These days if a student or young person does what Steve Jobs (phone device) or Bill Gates (exploiting bugs for more Computer time) did and got away with, they face lawsuits and decades in Jail. It is up to Universities like MIT to aggressively intervene in these cases and ensure that young people are free to (some extent) break systems and exploit system weaknesses in the interest of l…

[deleted]

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#18

Post by DerpDerpDerp »

rayiner wrote: post #12
suprgeek wrote: post #5

This has been long time coming. These days if a student or young person does what Steve Jobs (phone device) or Bill Gates (exploiting bugs for more Computer time) did and got away with, they face lawsuits and decades in Jail. It is up to Universities like MIT to aggressively intervene in these cases and ensure that young people are free to (some extent) break systems and exploit system weaknesses in the interest of l…

The world in which Jobs and Gates grew up was very different, one in which computers didn't play as vital a role in everyday life, and compromising a computer system could cause less in the way of damage, simply because people did not rely on them as heavily. In our modern world, saying that young people should be free to break and exploit systems has very different implications. We do not tolerate young people "lear…

I'd say a university should support students learning to pick locks by ignoring (as long as no particular damage was caused) them using campus locks for practice.

Re: MIT faulted over its support for students

#19

Post by nitrogen »

rayiner wrote: post #12
suprgeek wrote: post #5

This has been long time coming. These days if a student or young person does what Steve Jobs (phone device) or Bill Gates (exploiting bugs for more Computer time) did and got away with, they face lawsuits and decades in Jail. It is up to Universities like MIT to aggressively intervene in these cases and ensure that young people are free to (some extent) break systems and exploit system weaknesses in the interest of l…

The world in which Jobs and Gates grew up was very different, one in which computers didn't play as vital a role in everyday life, and compromising a computer system could cause less in the way of damage, simply because people did not rely on them as heavily. In our modern world, saying that young people should be free to break and exploit systems has very different implications. We do not tolerate young people "lear…

We do not tolerate young people "learning" how to pick locks by breaking into peoples' homes...

"Due to the top secret nature of the work, Los Alamos was isolated. In Feynman's own words, 'There wasn't anything to do there'. Bored, he indulged his curiosity by learning to pick the combination locks on cabinets and desks used to secure papers."

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#The_Manhattan_...

Post reply on HN