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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#731

Post by whiddershins »

sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

I think, realistically, a spouse of a founder might be very involved in a company and decision making. Depending on the exact nature of the relationship, this is probably inevitable, very common, and not necessarily undesirable. There is a reason we give the president's wife a special title even though technically no one voted for her, many married couples are a team in the professional arena as well.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#732

Post by dictum »

stephp wrote: post #699
tomp wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an story on predators that happen to be male (and female for that matter). Don't you think it's then disingenuous to call it sexism?

Women can absolutely be sexist towards other women-- as in a jealousy scenario. Sexism is being targeted because of your gender. The fact that this is not obvious explains a lot.

Isn't that a bit reaching, though? Jealousy is a personal feeling, not a reaction based on societal and political frameworks. Anecdote: gay men in long-term relationships are jealous of their partners too, and their reactions to perceived "enemies" are similar to that of people in heterosexual couples.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#733

Post by dmur »

teacup50 wrote: post #724
danielweber wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thus "threatening to quit" becomes the way for the crazy dudes to get whatever they want.

They're not crazy, and it only works if they have more political capital than you do. If I was forced to accept substandard work, and had no other choice but either maintain that bad code, or quit, I'd threaten to quit too.

No, they are crazy. Reverting someone else's changes without explaining why is crazy. No one is telling these people they can't explain their actions.

If any of these people has a disagreement with a co-worker over the co-worker's changes, it's their duty as a fellow employee to explain to the co-worker why they disagree, or at least explain to the manager why they disagree with the change, so that the manager can explain it to the co-worker. But just making the change and then threatening to quit... that is most definitely crazy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#734

Post by gaius »

michaelochurch wrote: post #459
romanovcode wrote: post #424

Can someone explain how does one gets a job after inflicting so much public damage on his previous workplace?

Before I answer this, let me state that I'm a tactician, not a judge or a god. I don't know who's right and wrong in this mess, nor who's good and who's bad. Can someone explain how does one gets a job after inflicting so much public damage on his previous workplace? It's hard. She may need a professional to rework her public image (even if her account is 100% accurate) and she'll want to settle for positive referenc…

What's Adria Richards up to these days? That's an ideal case study.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#735

Post by Bahamut »

glibgil wrote: post #624
buro9 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

I love github, but toxic cultures can happen anywhere. Github employees have been involved in commit abuse since the beginning https://web.archive.org/web/20130117043748/http://sheddingbi...

Wow...I hope that toxic github employee was fired for that.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#736

Post by gaius »

rdl wrote: post #24
iwasphone wrote: post #19

> Horvath then told her partner, also a GitHub employee... Protip: don't dip your pen in the company ink.

At big paranoid organizations (CIA, NSA, etc.), they actively encourage internal relationships and marriages, as it simplifies security modeling. But not really in the same group.

Actively encourage how? Genuinely curious, do you get a joint bonus if you marry a cow-orker or something?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#738

Post by maxcan »

buro9 wrote: post #293
sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

> The wife, and the husband (founder), have displayed an incredible lack of professionalism here.

That assumes that the story, as told in the accusation, is completely accurate. One could envision a scenario where the founder felt his wife may be able to relate to the situation better and could actually assist the accuser. However, in spite of best intentions, its possible that the wife's actions were misinterpreted by the accuser. Until Github or the wife gives their side of the story, perhaps withholding judgement is the optimal strategy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#739

Post by ef4 »

danielweber wrote: post #701
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It applies to any shared hosting with servers in in the US that operates above a certain scale; yes. What that certain scale is who knows, but github the most visible hosting service so is certain to be above it. Github is great for my open source work. Everyone's allowed to see that code, even the NSA. However you can find source to LOIC on github. I'm sure that who put that there and who worked on it when would be…

Yeah, because the NSA can't do anything about the service run by 2 guys in Germany.

It's not a question of "can't", it's a question of economics.

People keep confusing targeted attacks with bulk data collection. Nobody doubts the NSA can successfully launch a targeted attack against nearly any organization.

But that's not economical to do against everyone all the time. Whereas bulk collection of unencrypted or poorly-encrypted data from the handful of biggest cloud providers and network operators is cheap and easy.

So yes -- leaving the big providers in favor of competently-managed small-scale, lesser-known providers is probably a step up in privacy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#740

Post by kaoD »

soheil wrote: post #602

"The aforementioned wife began a pattern of passive aggressive behavior that included sitting close to Horvath, to, as she told TechCrunch, “make a point of intimidating” her." Get a freaking life, go sit somewhere else if you see her sitting close to you. And are you a mind-reader? What if she wasn't being "passive aggressive" and just wanted to sit there! Unbelievable how as soon as a woman is involved in tech indu…

> What if she wasn't being "passive aggressive" and just wanted to sit there!

...day after day, staring at her, after a weird out of office interaction where she was openly aggressive?

The wife was obviously trying to intimidate her and you seem to be the only individual trying to deny it.

> If you're standing up against a female well you're not helping the women cause.

Women can be sexist bigots just like men.

> Geeks [...] are different than the sexy attractive guys that you see on TV.

Geeks can be sexy and attractive too.

Also: unsexy and unattractive guys can be sexist bigots too. Perhaps even more, since they might subconsciously want to backlash for their lack of sexual attention.

> We're men building shit!

You're exactly everything that's wrong with this industry.

We're not men building shit. We're people building shit. You even intentionally left the girls out of the geek category!

How do you think a woman will feel welcome when you tell her to shut up her concerns since "we're men building shit" and she's pretty much disturbing your work? How do you want her to feel she belongs with us? Let me guess that: you don't want to!

You say they keep repeating the same fairy tales, but you seem like no fairy to me.

-

PS: I actually think this whole fiasco is not about sexism and she has disproportionately overblown the issue as gender warfare while it's just corporate politics. I just had to point out you are being sexist.

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