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Are Malls Over?

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Re: Are Malls Over?

#111

Post by leoc »

maratd wrote: post #93
bane wrote: post #81

This is really an important question as malls are usually massive holders of lots of valuable real estate in many towns. Where I live, there are...maybe around a dozen proper stereotypical malls within an hour drive. Of those, the two malls I literally grew up in have had very different trajectories. The one next to my highschool is a veritable empty shell. I think it sits at 40% occupancy, with entire wings boarded…

I think you hit the nail on the head and this is really region specific. There was a mall next to me when I was growing up and it was dingy, just poorly maintained. Then the area became hot, Whole Foods moved in. Then Target. Then a bevy of smaller upscale retailers. Now that dingy mall is unrecognizable and filled to the brim. Not a single vacancy. Not a single open parking spot either. Malls aren't dying. Some mall…

It would be interesting to see some numbers: total in-use square footage in out-of-town malls over time and so on. That would give a better idea as to whether there's an overall trend or not. It's hard to imagine that the Web hasn't caused an overall decline, though.

Re: Are Malls Over?

#113

Post by ulfw »

dageshi wrote: post #83
greggman wrote: post #39

Come to Singapore. There's places where there are 7 or more malls all right next to each other and more being built. Kuala Lumpur seems to have lots of shopping centers being built and many of them get full as in the there's no parking left.

Probably the climate? I'd imagine in summer Singapore and KL are ferociously humid and hot?

Undoubtfully the climate. This leads to Singaporean malls being 100x more interesting, convenient, high-end and better looking than any US mall. Pretty much all large malls have direct or adjacent to public train transport (MRT at Vivo, Ion, 313, nex...), have high-end restaurants, mid-range and fast-food offerings (local and international) and a wider variety of stores. They also have air conditioning, which is pretty much the only reason why all life happens in malls and you can barely walk around on weekends ;)

Re: Are Malls Over?

#114

Post by ulfw »

If US malls want to survive they need to start copying international malls, which are a lot more upscale, better looking (new or significantly renovated) and above all offer a much better mix between entertainment (movie theaters etc) and food (actual restaurants you would WANT to go to instead of chain/fast-food places) as well as stores. The problem with many malls is that they are copy cats of each other. Uninspiring 'practical' architecture, inedible food, the exact same stores at every mall, not much to do besides shopping and having a fast-foody coffee.

Re: Are Malls Over?

#115

Post by Roboprog »

jimmaswell wrote: post #65
tsunamifury wrote: post #20

Forcing shopping activity and gathering into indoor brutalist buildings is dying, shopping centers are not. Look at union sq, 4th st, walnut creek, and many others in the sf bay. All are stronger than ever by offering very high end retail mixed with high quality independent offerings and unique chef-driven eateries. What people have abandoned is indoor, stale, sunlight less, copycat malls with the same awful pizza an…

Brutalist? Don't you think that's a little hyperbolic? Every mall I've witnessed has had interior and exterior design far from brutalist. Pretty nice-looking, really. A popular one around here actually has a large skylight spanning most of the middle of the roof. There are a lot of good reasons to prefer an indoor place. The weather's often not comfortable outside. It's only really perfectly comfortable for a time th…

There's some good tongue in cheek commentary about the style in this podcast:

http://kunstlercast.com/shows/kunstlercast_111_brutalism.htm...

"Darth Vader" windows :-)

Of course, the host's main concern is about peak oil, so he would have some other things to say about the gradual decline of malls.

I'm not as extreme, but mail order is definitely more economical than frequent commutes to a far away shopping center. I'm glad I live within easy biking distance from an outdoor shopping center, which has many little restaurants (chain & local) to hit for lunch when working from home, as well as a theatre, Target & a "Whole Foods"-like grocery store. I can carry a fair amount of stuff home on bike rack "pannier" bags, and sometimes only get in the car one or two days a week to make an appearance at work. Only the Target has decent bike racks, though. Otherwise, trees and trash cans get pressed into service :-)

Re: Are Malls Over?

#116

Post by maxerickson »

ulfw wrote: post #114

If US malls want to survive they need to start copying international malls, which are a lot more upscale, better looking (new or significantly renovated) and above all offer a much better mix between entertainment (movie theaters etc) and food (actual restaurants you would WANT to go to instead of chain/fast-food places) as well as stores. The problem with many malls is that they are copy cats of each other. Uninspir…

U.S. malls do tend to have movie theaters. But they aren't going to pay high rent to get into a mall if there is open commercial land anywhere nearby.

It's a similar thing with decent restaurants, they don't necessarily gain much from the association.

I saw a thing in a local paper that the bankrupt mall should 'bring in' good stores. Of course this is backwards, the stores mentioned in the comment have no interest in running a store in a run down mall in a small market.

Re: Are Malls Over?

#117

Post by eclipxe »

dylz wrote: post #103
tsunamifury wrote: post #20

Forcing shopping activity and gathering into indoor brutalist buildings is dying, shopping centers are not. Look at union sq, 4th st, walnut creek, and many others in the sf bay. All are stronger than ever by offering very high end retail mixed with high quality independent offerings and unique chef-driven eateries. What people have abandoned is indoor, stale, sunlight less, copycat malls with the same awful pizza an…

Half of the reason I go to Westfield Mall is because of the food court. If it was the standard mcdonalds-unrecognisable foodcourt chicken with different sauce-etc, I would hate it.

Westfield is a mall brand/company. There isn't just ONE Westfield mall.

Re: Are Malls Over?

#118

Post by learc83 »

bane wrote: post #101
earino wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described Nashville, TN perfectly. I don't know where you are describing, but you just gave a fantastic breakdown of the fall of the Hickory Hollow Mall and the rise and plateauing of either Green Hills or Cool Springs. It was a little uncanny. If it isn't Nashville, TN then this is a spectacular repeating pattern and now I hope I can find some good data sets regarding mall occupancy somewhere that I can vis…

Nope, not Nashville. About 750 miles East of there in the D.C. area.

Are you talking about the walmart/mall in Manassas?

Re: Are Malls Over?

#119

Post by igravious »

tsunamifury wrote: post #20

Forcing shopping activity and gathering into indoor brutalist buildings is dying, shopping centers are not. Look at union sq, 4th st, walnut creek, and many others in the sf bay. All are stronger than ever by offering very high end retail mixed with high quality independent offerings and unique chef-driven eateries. What people have abandoned is indoor, stale, sunlight less, copycat malls with the same awful pizza an…

In Ireland it rains a lot. The one big mall built recently in the city I live in is always busy. Why? Because you won't get wet going from shop to shop. Not a single vacant space. You get a bit of daylight from a strip of glass in the roof. Typical food court, multiplex, big name grocery store, car valeting, farmer's market once a week, clothing retailers, there are very few things you can not get there - the only annoyance is that the DIY, home improvement, outdoorsy stuff, car stuff, electrical and electronics, is across the road and over a bit in this weird appendage space :( Also chock-a-block.

If you have kids this is doubly important, you don't get wet! (Or cold I suppose). If traditional retail could solve this then well done them, but how? I'm not keen on the sterile everything-is-a-chainstore atmosphere of indoors malls but you can't argue with the convenience and the not getting wetness. I would prefer multi-storey car parking though, I hate the sprawl of these enormous car parks, so ugly! why not build a tall multi-storey car park and lots of nice green spaces with trees and ponds and fountains?

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