To me, spreading this out in public is a nice way to tag onself as unemployable / HR-risk.
Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
391–400 of 1001 posts
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
No way in hell should it be the top comment. I can't find any victim blaming at all in a quick skim, so if it's here it's not by any means a plurality opinion. bitops is being even worse and reactionary than they claim HN to be.
There was quite a lot of what I would consider to be victim blaming in the previous thread where it was less clear what the allegations were. Or at least, my impression of the thread was that there were a very high proportion of commenters saying we should reserve judgement and at the same time hypothesizing about all the ways that the woman might be at fault. While this is all true (on the information we had in that…
> (despite the fact that the situations described would have been an order of magnitude less likely to arise if she were a man).
How and why is this a fact? Could really none of this happen to a male employee?
Crazy boss? Check. Workplace relationship? Check. "Enemies" reverting your code? Check. Management non-reactive to complaints? Check. I think a lot of this goes on regularly on many companies, an concerns many employees. In particular, what seems sexist here is trying to make this a women's problem, not an employee's problem.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even more so, it is the sexual attractiveness of the guys who are watching.
are you implying that if it had been an attractive male watching the females, there wouldn't have been any complaint, despite being leered at?
Yes, that's what is being implied, and it's certainly something that happens, in degrees. People generally enjoy attention from those they themselves find attractive - obviously up to a limit, but that limit is much different than when you don't find the other person attractive.
And that is why the "making a woman feel uncomfortable constitutes sexual harassment" standard is problematic. And of course it's not entirely wrong either because it certainly can be done on purpose.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#394Can someone please explain to me why-the-f was a non-employee granted full and free access to other company employees, each and every day, on company premises, without mutual consent?
What were the other co-founders thinking? This was a darn time-bomb waiting to explode. Just because you are a fancy-pants, hotshot startup and not a bigco, does not mean the same laws and liabilities don't apply to you.
Founders, all that blood, sweat and tears will go down the drain if you ignore the stodgy, boring, beuraucratic 'nonsense' that was designed to protect humans from other humans, as soon as you have more than one human in your beloved startup.
Humans will be humans, sooner or later; so you need to cover the proverbial mattress in waterproof covering, for there will be piss, eventually.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#395Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…
It may well be that the greatest damage to GitHub here is not on the issue of sexism so much as their advocacy of lean management and organizational "freedom". Although it may have sounded like the "cool teacher" way to address things by having your wife take an employee out for drinks to discuss grievances, clearly this should have been handled in a professional setting according to a clear grievance process. That c…
Apparently, organizational freedom for a bunch of young guys tends to breed sexism and abuse. I've always thought there's trouble ahead for a company whose blog is mostly a drinking journal (although this appears to no longer be the case).
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
So whoever has less money is always in the right?
Nope. But when an individual claims to have been wronged by a large organization they should receive the benefit of the doubt.
Seems to me the issues are less with her stories than with her interpretation of sexism. I haven't seen anybody claim "she's lying" yet.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#397Well, there are only three Github founders, and a quick search seems to indicate that Tom Preston-Werner is the only one with a wife, Theresa: http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/27/omakase-charity-tech-indust...
This gives me the opportunity to say that I thought this guy sounded like a tool during his talk at Startup School.
Great, as if this morning hasn't fulfilled the daily dose of irrelevant, ad-hominem insults.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#398The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…
I think it's really a huge stretch to go from oogling of hula hoopers to "feeling unsafe". What, after watching some women do hoola hoop men suddenly turn into rapists? That's 100% in her head and sounds slightly crazy to me, to be honest. Not even going to strip clubs turns men into rapists on a regular basis... I think that accusation is completely unwarranted (from the sounds of it).
After reading the article, it became pretty clear to me that whatever manner of "culture" github appears to be permeating internally, she was very far from it. This indicates she was a bad hire from the get-go. Hiring isn't just about talent, it's also about cultural fit, and while it's difficult to know with precision who fits a cultural dynamic, 1) such an issue is bound to arise as a company grows and 2) there had to be indications that she was incredibly sensitive early on.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#399The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…
The hula hooping event simply took on a symbolic meaning for her, give what she went through. I don't think the act itself was dangerous or so terrible, but through her eyes, at that moment, it was the last straw.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them Gawking and looking are not the same thing. There are also times where even the most socially incompetent will realise that some girls doing things that might be nice to look at is not an invitation to check them out doing it (this is, of course, excepting people who go the reductionist route of thinking tha…
... doing things that might be nice to look at is not an invitation to check them out doing it Then why do any of those things in a non-private setting with reasonable expectation of gawkers being present?
because in an office environment you can at least expect your coworkers to show a bit of respect?