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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#371

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

I've always been broadly under the impression that the HR department was a waste of air, but I suppose conflict resolution is perhaps something they'd be useful for.

...maybe.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#372

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…

I think it's really a huge stretch to go from oogling of hula hoopers to "feeling unsafe". What, after watching some women do hoola hoop men suddenly turn into rapists? That's 100% in her head and sounds slightly crazy to me, to be honest. Not even going to strip clubs turns men into rapists on a regular basis...

I think that accusation is completely unwarranted (from the sounds of it).

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#373

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…

If someone were to hula-hoop to music in my office, male or female, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of people looking on. Not sure where the line of "looking on" and "gawking" is in that situation.

If both are straight and male looking on.

If both are gay and male looking on.

If both are straight and female looking on.

If both are straight and male is hoola hooping with female watching looking on.

If both are straight and female is hoola hooping with male looking on gawking.

Is this not obvious, We are all uncontrollable messes of hormones and the self-control of a 15 year old boy apparently.

If I was at work and women where hoola hooping I'd just go get on with my work (but then I hate goofing off at work, work is work).

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#374
post #20

Two women are dancing to music at work in a tech company and the author compares this to a scene at a strip club as men are watching this. Unless this was a regular exercise, what was everybody expecting? Nobody taking notice?

Also not even going to a strip club turns men into rapists, so "feeling unsafe" because of such an event sounds rather crazy to me.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#375

To me, it seems like this sort of problem occurs more in start-ups because the boundaries between professional and personal lives are blurred. I've heard similar stories from people working at Facebook as well. This sort of forced camaraderie to fit into the clique isn't healthy at all. When I worked at Microsoft, we had quite a few talented female engineers on our team. I don't think at any point their gender was br…

I completely agree.

I don't have any insights into start up culture (the only one I've actually been involved in is mine, There are two of us.) but I have worked for massive companies where management was pretty evenly divided by gender and have never personally witnessed anything untoward (or actually heard about and that place was a gossip mill).

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#376
It sounds like Julie decided to start banging a coworker and then suddenly became surprised when drama arises in the workplace ?! Isn't she the one who obviously crossed the line first ? It would be one thing if she was with the guy before she got hired, but she met him at work.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#379
post #169

If you are one of the people in this thread jumping to defend GitHub in this situation, ask yourself why. GitHub are perfectly capable of defending themselves. They are the group in power here. Second-guessing the motives and truth of this woman's story does nothing but undermine her, and undermine the confidence of others who may have similar stories (at GitHub or elsewhere).

So whoever has less money is always in the right?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#380

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta?

I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar.

I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disagreements by silently reverting some of my friend's check-ins.

The founder's wife story also reminds me of episodes I've heard involving the wife cabal. It's nothing as sinister as the GitHub story, but I see a lot of the same structural issues reflected in these telling anecdotes. The lack of an overt chain of command means that power asserts itself covertly. If you are unhappy, you have little recourse but to express your own power by indirect passive-aggressive means. That's bad enough when it happens in any corporate structure, but here it is almost the only possible course of action.

Valve might have been a lot like GitHub if it had hired inexperienced, smart, cocky web programmers in their early twenties. In both cases the companies also boast a level of success that makes it hard for them to evaluate whether elements of their company culture is detrimental to their continued development at this stage of their existence. It's probably hardest for Valve because of the inexhaustible money faucet that is Steam. There is so much squandered potential at that company, which is a weird thing to say considering how much they've done and are still doing.

I'm waiting for a hip rebranding of the term 'management' once these no-management companies realize they have issues that cannot be resolved by hiring supposedly perfect people.

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