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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#141

Post by Robin_Message »

LockeWatts wrote: post #106
omegaworks wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, it's always the women that make things dramatic. Not the power fetish of the founder's wife, the unwanted advances of coworkers, or the reverting of legitimate contributions to the team's project. Can't you see past the fact that she's a woman? Don't you see how demoralizing any of this would be?

Can I ask a question about phrasing for a minute? What's inherently wrong with an unwanted advance? Advances have an unknown state until they're responded to. If she had accepted it, it would've been a welcomed advance. There's no way to know that until you walk up to a woman and say "Hey, I think you're pretty cool. Want to go get a drink sometime?" If she says no, that's unwanted, but I don't see how it's inappropr…

As she described it, there were at least 4 problems. 1. Its generally polite to only make advances on unattached people. 2. Going to her home to ask makes it awkward to say no. 3. Not leaving immediately compounded 2. 4. Subsequent behaviour was bad, thus showing bad faith all along.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#142

Post by pbateman »

jd0 wrote: post #122
pbateman wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News. I know this is going to come across as unfriendly, but I'm always bemused when people make these little plays for attention. It's a massive site, you're not one of the notable commenters, if HN isn't delivering value why not just stop reading it quietly rather than announcing it to the world?

Because human beings have a desire to express opinion and emotion? Your attitude is the same as a lot of the socially inept that roam the valley and this message board. If This Isn't The Most Efficient Logical Course Of Action (according my perspective) Then It Bemuses Me.

socially inept

Good to see we're staying classy. Next time you might like to work in a zinger about autism, neckbeards and/or fedora ownership.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#143

Post by lutusp »

LockeWatts wrote: post #99
lutusp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to say there can't be girl on girl [sic] sexism. True, but since the "girls" under discussion are both in fact women, that would be sexism by definition.

Wait, what does the noun change? You completely lost me.

> Wait, what does the noun change?

Are you still a boy? Yes or no? How about a black man? Is he appropriately described as a "boy" or do you value your life?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#144

Post by theorique »

noisyboy wrote: post #133
theorique wrote: post #98

The bad actor in this version of the story seems to be the founder's wife. And the founder certainly dropped the ball by not keeping his wife in line. For whatever reason, the wife acted crazy, intimidating, and creepy toward Horvath. Why? Who knows? Maybe because of jealousy or concern that her husband was interested in this (admittedly reasonably attractive) female employee? The founder needed to do the professiona…

More important than #1 or #2 (and probably easier to verify based on the tendency of version control systems to retain logs/history): he deleted a co-worker's code based on grudge.

Agree 100% - see edit.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#146

Post by watwut »

LockeWatts wrote: post #106
omegaworks wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, it's always the women that make things dramatic. Not the power fetish of the founder's wife, the unwanted advances of coworkers, or the reverting of legitimate contributions to the team's project. Can't you see past the fact that she's a woman? Don't you see how demoralizing any of this would be?

Can I ask a question about phrasing for a minute? What's inherently wrong with an unwanted advance? Advances have an unknown state until they're responded to. If she had accepted it, it would've been a welcomed advance. There's no way to know that until you walk up to a woman and say "Hey, I think you're pretty cool. Want to go get a drink sometime?" If she says no, that's unwanted, but I don't see how it's inappropr…

Unwanted advance is ok in my opinion. Retaliation after rejection is not. To add complexity, proposing to someone in long term relationship does not make you look good.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#147

Post by belorn »

A founders wife felt that a female employee puts the company at risk, so she try to control the employee to avoid harm to the company. This then turned into bullying, stalking, and unhealthy work environment.

This is why affirmative action and other "let treat women specially" crap is bad. It makes for a self-fulfilling prophesy of more sexism. The more we focus on "balancing the scales" rather than eliminating special treatment of women, the faster we can reach a place where everyone is treated the same regardless of gender.

The rest of the story is not about sexism. The guy who got rejected is the prime example why some companies (and government, and armies) have anti-fraternization policies. The positive and negative aspects of office romances are old, well established and equal by both genders. At best, it is gender equal sexism.

The dancing event however sound purely made up in her mind. As a species, we a interested in what others are interested in, and when people laugh or is having fun, it attracts attention. It has nothing to do with sexism.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#148

Post by ScottBurson »

rdl wrote: post #22

This sounds less like sexism and more just non-sexist batshit crazy people and incompetent HR. Somehow that isn't particularly better.

It isn't directly stated, but my take is that what set the founder's wife off in the first place must have been that she got wind, through her husband, that Horvath was unhappy with the "boys' club" culture. This account doesn't detail what happened early on in Horvath's time there, but makes it sound like there were numerous relatively minor incidents and a general pattern of behavior. Maybe Horvath said something to the founder, or to someone else who passed it on to the founder, he discussed with his wife, and she decided to make sure it wouldn't be a problem.

I think that's why sexism is a key part of this story.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#149

Post by Dylan16807 »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #132
theorique wrote: post #98

The bad actor in this version of the story seems to be the founder's wife. And the founder certainly dropped the ball by not keeping his wife in line. For whatever reason, the wife acted crazy, intimidating, and creepy toward Horvath. Why? Who knows? Maybe because of jealousy or concern that her husband was interested in this (admittedly reasonably attractive) female employee? The founder needed to do the professiona…

> keeping his wife in line. I have never cringed so hard in my life.

Please, just delete this comment. Yeah oh my god that sentence could be interpreted wrong. We don't need a tangent about it. The real meaning has absolutely nothing to do with subordination. It's a simple matter of keeping your friends/relatives/partners out of your job. They don't work there, they shouldn't be interfering.

Also, shame on anyone that upvotes such a derail just because they agree with the words.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#150

Post by [deleted] »

potatolicious wrote: post #96
csense wrote: post #64

I don't think this was an instance of institutionalized sexism. Rather, the founder's wife seems like an unbalanced individual, and nobody effectively set any boundaries. The other founders and HR seemed unaware or unable to set the situation to right. As for her romantically inclined co-worker -- I don't see how his behavior qualifies as sexist or hostile. Merely a bit clueless, but isn't it to be expected that empl…

> "but isn't it to be expected that employees of a tech company will be somewhat socially awkward?" Reverting people's commits and stripping their code out of vengeance isn't social awkwardness, it's completely unacceptable and unprofessional conduct. It doesn't matter what gender anyone is, or that it's being done out of romantic rejection, it's unacceptable. Full stop. Author's complaint is evidently less about bei…

[deleted]
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