Live data from Hacker News

Checking out of 'Hotel America'

news.bbc.co.uk

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#51

I'm a bit thrown by the mention of Kara Neumann. It's as if he's trying to suggest it was some major trend that wacky American law allows, as opposed to a freakish event that lead to her fanatical parents being convicted of reckless homicide.

Yes, that was terribly weak. One story is still an anecdote. Data looks something more like http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/oct/10/gender.ukcrime (since our author is a brit), but I say this not to directly criticize the UK either, but to point out that if that's not a fair to "understand" Britain and Wales through that news story, than certainly it's not fair to understand America through that one either. Poor form.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#52
post #35

I often enjoy these articles, but they never really resonate with me. I see almost nothing of my day to day life in these narratives. Would this article describe San Francisco? New York? Seattle? Portland? Austin? New Orleans? Memphis? I assure you that people buying a house in SF aren't surprised to find grout in the tiles or drafty windows. We're actually kind of hoping to find those things, because this means we'r…

One of the best things I ever did was drive cross-country. Seeing the West Coast, Rocky Mountain States, Midwest, South, and East over the span of a few weeks showed me a heck of a lot that I still go back and ponder when I meet someone from a place I passed through. Little tiny things are very different.

But don't underestimate international border culture shock either - especially non-Western countries. America was basically settled by and built on Western European traditions - England, Spain, and France mostly, with some Dutch and later the Irish, Italians, and other Western Europeans. But the ex-Soviet Bloc, Middle East, East Asia are lightyears different from America, and the culture shock is pretty supreme. Basically assumptions about how the world works and should work that I didn't know I had I had to re-check.

The craziest was the Japanese on work. Raised in America, I basically took for granted that doing work is something you don't like that you do for money. Okay, some really lucky people love their jobs, but they're pretty rare. And some people manage to have an "okay job", but all our media, movies, television, and culture ethos are that "work sucks and get it over with so I can get paid and do something else."

Japan? Not the case. People actually take pride in doing work, for working. We look at the Japanese hours and think Japanese people are bat shit crazy, and I mean, maybe they are, but they actually take pride and enjoyment out of working. Comparing an American employee at McDonalds to a Japanese employee at Mosburger or Yoshinoya, or even Japanese McDonalds is a head trip. Cross border culture shock, even. Words don't do it justice, seeing the expression and gesturing and presentation of people working in Japan really is something else, as are similar things in other very different places.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#53

I'm a bit thrown by the mention of Kara Neumann. It's as if he's trying to suggest it was some major trend that wacky American law allows, as opposed to a freakish event that lead to her fanatical parents being convicted of reckless homicide.

I upvoted you because you're right and it's a good point, but the author's statement has some validity. Freedom of any religious belief is more sacrosanct in America than anywhere else I've visited. That includes freedom to practice some really cultlike, destructive practices. I won't call out any religions in particular, but there's a number of recognized and protected religions that do things that would be criminal if they weren't religions.

My opinion on the religious makeup of America: 10-20% of our recognized religions increase peace, tolerance, community, create a common bond, shared interest, and good community with good people, and are a strong force for the world. Half of the religions are good and bad - they create a community and inspire some good works, but also a lot of hypocrisy, missing the "bigger picture", and some other faults. 30% of religions here are really ugly - they actively cultivate an "us vs. them" dynamic: Very enemy centered, trying to whip their flock into an angry frenzy against other faiths and people with different beliefs. Some good works - really - but a lot of hate speech and creating distance and intolerance and generally being bad for the world. Finally, the worst 10% have all that plus prohibitions on life-saving things, or permission or encouragement of things that destroy mental and physical health and life of the members in addition to the intolerance, hatred, hypocrisy.

I love freedom of religion, and the "good to okay" 50-70% of faiths do some great things in the community and for their members. The other branches, sects, divisions, and religions are really bad news though. I'm not sure how anything could be done about it that wouldn't be twisted into targeting unpopular faiths rather than "bad" ones, though.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#54
"It was an entirely preventable death caused, let's be frank, by some of the Stone Age superstition that stalks the richest and most technologically advanced nation on earth."

That's patently unfair. Much of that superstition is Bronze Age. Credit where credit's due.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#55
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that so few Europeans believe that diabetes can be cured via prayer? People whose religion is sincere will inevitably come into conflict with religious and secular authorities from time to time. Over several centuries, most of them left Europe and went to the US, where there were no religious authorities, and the secular authorities were much more hands-off. It's not particularly surprising that their desce…

I sometimes joke that we (the British) sent all our criminals to Australia and all our puritans to America, and of course there's some amount of historical truth to this. So if the Americans remain fervently religious, why isn't Australia really a nation of criminals today?

What makes you think we're not a nation of criminals? We're just really GOOD criminals, so no-one's caught us yet.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose Americans do have a naive optimism--I've always perceived British culture in general to be cynical and negative, but that may simply be in comparison to my own optimistic culture. I attribute a lot of that to history. The fall of Europe's empires in the 20th century was the failure of their grand national experiments, and on top of it, much of the world faced immense death and destruction during the wars of…

Good point. I think a lot of a culture's attitude is based on cultural memory, which comes from lessons learned (or not) from history. Americans abroad are often elbowed about how young their country is (ugh, I lived in Beijing and they always trot out 4000 years of Chinese civilization. Nevermind the CCP is only 80 years old), but what this means is relatively less cultural baggage. Americans have less cultural memo…

Remember first of all we are cultural beings. The culture you are part of is the most important determining your dreams, thougths and life.

The richer the culture the finer you might be.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#57

"You can checkout any time you like, But you can never leave"

Don't know why you're getting downvoted. I guess HN doesn't have many Eagles fans and they're taking your quote as some sort of political statement.

More likely: because repeating the first line of the article doesn't add much to the conversation.

Re: Checking out of 'Hotel America'

#58
"But America speaks to the whole of humanity because the whole of humanity is represented here; our possibilities and our propensities."

Sounds a bit Nazi, a nation over all others ...

God bless America, we, the people of the Earth are proud of seeing it, understanding it and learning from. And (now as the world order is changing) we are inviting Americans to see us, understand us and learn from us.

And God bless we are living fast times. Our grandchilds won't ever think in terms of nations, borders and states

Post reply on HN