Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science • Hacker News Board

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#81

Post by mempko » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 5:39 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #62

mempko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

>Profit has no space in "real" free markets. What kind of drivel is that? If you create a product/service which nobody else can duplicate and the demand for it is there, you are going to make a profit. That's exactly how a "real" free market functions.

why wouldn't someone be able to duplicate? You keep things secret? Government protects you via patents and copyright? I mean econ 101 is that markets bring profits towards zero. A perfect market with perfect information means zero profit. Any market that tends towards "perfection" would therefore be anathema to any capitalist.

In other words, fuck man, capitalists hate markets. They would prefer that you don't have a choice but to buy from them.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#82

Post by mempko » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 5:40 AM UTC

nirnira wrote: post #61

mempko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

>Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. Oh really? And when was the last time you attempted to do what these people do? Easy to judge sitting from an armchair, isn't it? While you're at it, why don't you stop using any of the products that these people create? And stop using any of the products created by people using their products? Why don't you stop patronising for instance any business that…

I am too nice to do what those people do. I am too nice to fire anyone, to stab my partner in the back. To steal millions from my employees. To lie to investors.

I am just too honest damned. and just too damn nice to attempt to do what these people do.

Remember the Simpsons episode with Bill Gates where he says "I didn't get rich by writing checks!"

And why the hell are you defending those people? Do you wish to be one of those one day? What is in it for you to spend time with a dope like me sniffing their shit?

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#83

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 5:43 AM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #32

> American science, long a source of national power and pride, is increasingly becoming a private enterprise. Oh how quickly journalists forget the past. The only reason we ever became a scientific superpower in the first place is because of one man, John D. Rockefeller.

Do tell.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#84

Post by mempko » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 5:50 AM UTC

trentmb wrote: post #63

mempko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

> The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. Wasn't that, in at least part, the reason why government felt the investment was worth making? To fund (expensive) basic research that can then be taken to drive and create enterprise?

Notice we are talking about the government as some "other" instead of what it should be, made of you and me. Lets rephrase what you said with that in mind.

"Wasn't that, in at least part, the reason why WE felt the investment was worth making? To fund (expensive) basic research that can then be taken to drive and create enterprise?"

and let me finish it off for you.

"that can then be taken to drive and create enterprise so that we can pay out the ass for everything we buy so that a couple of snakes can have billions."

The reality is the government made that decision behind our backs. Nobody asked you and me. They made that decision to pad the pockets of their friends. They are just administrators after all.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#85

Post by mempko » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 6:01 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #60

mempko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

How much of the funding of Intel/Amd/ARM, who probably built the cpu you're using to access this side, came from the government? How much of the funding of this site itself, and of other sites you may use on a daily basis such as Google and Facebook, came from the government? How much of the funding for the GPU that's rendering this site came from the government? How are you not benefiting from all these things? Long…

I mean, are you familiar with the history of google and facebook? Pagerank was paid for by a government grant. Why aren't the profits of google being distributed into our pockets? Facebook had early investment from CIA connected sources. SpaceX is almost all funded by NASA.

I mean look at the technologies they built. Largest people tracker (Google) and largest communication graph (Facebook). Look at the current web technologies and the massive centralization of technology.

Let the government turn off the money spigot, and silicon valley will be bankrupt in a week.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#86

Post by marincounty » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 6:37 AM UTC

nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

"tall poppies"? Our system allowed these Poppies the to flourish. These tall Poppies were never subject to shakedowns, or out right theft of their usually inherited monies. Most never served their country. They lived safe privileged lives. They didn't need to worry about much; other than making money. If we don't start closing the inequity gap, I wonder just how long this "cake walk" for the wealthy will last. I hope we never become, well like Mexico, where the wealthy need to be constantly on alert for kidnapping, or getting shot? As to letting the tall poppies do the right thing with there benevolent gifts; I believe they need some guidance. Bill Gates comes to mind. Spending millions on expensive genetically modified seeds--only to see one crop for some poor tribe in Africa. I do admire he brought up the condom issue though. I don't have any concrete answers, but "only in America" could a lot of these rich dudes make their fortunes. What really irks me is is when they take advantage of all the thing most of us take for granted(like an honest judicial system, right down to the cops on the streets), and then store their money offshore--all because they want a few more shekels. And then when they get in trouble they proudly proclaim,"I am an American.! I have rights".

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#87

Post by nirnira » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 6:57 AM UTC

mempko wrote: post #82

nirnira wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. Oh really? And when was the last time you attempted to do what these people do? Easy to judge sitting from an armchair, isn't it? While you're at it, why don't you stop using any of the products that these people create? And stop using any of the products created by people using their products? Why don't you stop patronising for instance any business that…

I am too nice to do what those people do. I am too nice to fire anyone, to stab my partner in the back. To steal millions from my employees. To lie to investors. I am just too honest damned. and just too damn nice to attempt to do what these people do. Remember the Simpsons episode with Bill Gates where he says "I didn't get rich by writing checks!" And why the hell are you defending those people? Do you wish to be o…

Jesus, get a grip. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#88

Post by nirnira » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 6:59 AM UTC

marincounty wrote: post #86

nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

"tall poppies"? Our system allowed these Poppies the to flourish. These tall Poppies were never subject to shakedowns, or out right theft of their usually inherited monies. Most never served their country. They lived safe privileged lives. They didn't need to worry about much; other than making money. If we don't start closing the inequity gap, I wonder just how long this "cake walk" for the wealthy will last. I hope…

Thanks for contributing yet another well-reasoned, impartial analysis of modern society to Hacker news.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#89

Post by logicchains » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 7:32 AM UTC

mempko wrote: post #85

logicchains wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of the funding of Intel/Amd/ARM, who probably built the cpu you're using to access this side, came from the government? How much of the funding of this site itself, and of other sites you may use on a daily basis such as Google and Facebook, came from the government? How much of the funding for the GPU that's rendering this site came from the government? How are you not benefiting from all these things? Long…

I mean, are you familiar with the history of google and facebook? Pagerank was paid for by a government grant. Why aren't the profits of google being distributed into our pockets? Facebook had early investment from CIA connected sources. SpaceX is almost all funded by NASA. I mean look at the technologies they built. Largest people tracker (Google) and largest communication graph (Facebook). Look at the current web t…

No, I'm not familiar with the history of Google and Facebook, hence why I was asking for data regarding what proportion of their business was funded by government money. As in, a percentage.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#90

Post by logicchains » Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 7:39 AM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #77

logicchains wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the poor in America are more affected by 'lifestyle diseases' (smoking and obesity related illnesses, for instance), which may be more difficult to cure as they need to be addressed from a social angle, not just a medical one.

More difficult than malaria or AIDS? I doubt it. Diabetes will probably be a much easier nut to crack than either, with or without lifestyle changes.

Well according to some graphs I found on Google, malaria mortality rates have reduced significantly in the past few decades [1], as have AIDS death rates [2]. Diabetes rates and mortality have however been continuously increasing.

1. http://www.umich.edu/~csfound/545/1995/land05.jpg

2. http://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/default/files/images/colorbox...