Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 107 posts

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#61

Post by nirnira »

mempko wrote: post #54
nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

>Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work.

Oh really? And when was the last time you attempted to do what these people do? Easy to judge sitting from an armchair, isn't it?

While you're at it, why don't you stop using any of the products that these people create? And stop using any of the products created by people using their products? Why don't you stop patronising for instance any business that uses Microsoft or Oracle software? Let's see how much choice that leaves you.

>They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship.

The American government decided to use public resources to fund research without attempting to monopolise the application of results. If you don't like the fact that people have created successful businesses and products with this, you should blame the government, not the people who took risks and brought the applications to market. You don't get to hold out your hand and ask for something back when you gave it away for free in the first place.

>I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment.

Perhaps you should be judged too. After all, aren't you this very moment enjoying the internet? Isn't your enjoyment of it, its enrichment of your life (even potentially your dependence on it for your economic niche) a profit of your own? And how much have you decided to donate to the government as compensation for this profit from your use of the fruits of public research funding?

>Profit has no space in "real" free markets.

I suggest you educate yourself in basic economics before making such stupid claims.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#62

Post by hueving »

mempko wrote: post #54
nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

>Profit has no space in "real" free markets.

What kind of drivel is that? If you create a product/service which nobody else can duplicate and the demand for it is there, you are going to make a profit. That's exactly how a "real" free market functions.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#63

Post by trentmb »

mempko wrote: post #54
nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

Their success is on the backs of people who do the real work. They are also on the backs of the American people who contribute significant amount of money through government sponsorship. The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach. So no, I do not celebrate their success and I will judge them sharply for profiting so handsomely from public investment. And don't gi…

> The tech we use today is based on government investment that the private industry coudn't stomach.

Wasn't that, in at least part, the reason why government felt the investment was worth making? To fund (expensive) basic research that can then be taken to drive and create enterprise?

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#64

Post by nirnira »

timr wrote: post #55
nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

Did you read the article, or just assume that it says what you hate? The article is about the balance of funding -- how much of it is private, and how much of it is public. Nobody is claiming that rich people shouldn't be allowed to fund vanity science projects.

I read the whole article thanks. It was stupid and judgemental - eg criticising rich people for only supporting research into rich white people disease - woops, never mind Bill Gates!

"Balance of funding" is a cute euphemism though for "let's punish rich people for exercising their free choice, steal more of their money and give it to bureaucrats and congressmen in the White House to squabble over and divert into kickbacks for districts and lobbyists." Because everyone knows the government's track record of wise use of funds is so fantastic.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#65

Post by clef »

mempko wrote: post #56
Aqueous wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason we have a shot at affordable commercial spaceflight, as well as an eventual affordable journey to Mars, is because of that vanity project. If it was left up to the public sector alone, I don't think we'll be able to go to Mars in 20 or 30 years. But this hasn't really changed. Even in NASA's hey day space missions weren't government-only projects - The space capsules and Saturn V were built by contrac…

Really? Public money got us to the moon in 10 years but couldn't get us to mars in 30? I think it is more about a lack of will than a lack of resources. Driving down costs isn't an issue. Imagine if we had the will to go to mars and spent the one trillion dollars we spent to go to Iraq on a mars project instead. Driving down costs isn't the issue...

Public money got Stanley Kubrick super wealthy apparently :)

http://realitysandwich.com/23226/kubrick_apollo/

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#66

Post by hueving »

pravda wrote: post #36
jdonaldson wrote: post #3

Universities also privatize science through patents and IP. Research publications privatize research by bundling and charging exorbitant fees for journals and proceedings. Our generation doesn't have a NASA or Bell Labs. The closest thing to those outfits are vanity projects from billionaires... SpaceX, etc.

>Our generation doesn't have a NASA or Bell Labs. Bell Labs was a private corporation.

Forced into existence because Bell was a monopoly.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#67

Post by clef »

The cause of man's suffering is: "this belongs to me" (Anthony De Mello)

Science and knowledge belongs to everybody and to no one, regardless of where you are from. Nationalism was pretty fancy and efficient a long time ago, if I see myself as more "American" or "French", than "human", humanity is screwed.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#68

Post by firstOrder »

nirnira wrote: post #52

I truly, truly hate articles like this. The constant tone of judgement and scepticism. The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful? Why can't you just say thank you that so many wealthy people choose to turn their fortunes towards so many philanthropic causes? Why do you have to have s…

> The underlying assumption that the rich don't deserve to spend their money however they want. Why can't you just celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful?

Well let us look at these rich people, on the Forbes 400 richest list. So people can celebrate success and encourage people to emulate the successful.

#1 Bill Gates - had a million dollar trust fund from his bank president grandfather, mother on United Way board with president of IBM #2 Warren Buffett - father was a congressman, grandparents owned a chain of stores in Nebraska #3 Larry Ellison - after a middle class upbringing, he was inspired by a 1970 CACM article and proceeded to hit several home runs over the the next few decades #4 Charles Koch - inherited an oil company #5 David Koch - inherited an oil company #6 Christy Walton - inherited Wal-Mart #7 Jim Walton - inherited Wal-Mart ...and the rest of the Wal-Mart heirs...

Aside from Larry Ellison, all of these people were to the manor born. Telling people to "emulate their success" is ludicrous. Plenty of people are paid good money to tell us why we should "celebrate success" for these people, and should try to "emulate the successful". Anyone who would actually believe these people's press clippings is clearly a fool. They have the same kind of "success" the czar in Russia had - they were born into it.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#69

Post by tsotha »

Aqueous wrote: post #37
tsotha wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only reason we have a shot at affordable commercial spaceflight, as well as an eventual affordable journey to Mars, is because of that vanity project. I'm not sure why you're calling SpaceX a vanity project. The company is already profitable, and if things play out like Musk is planning the company stands to make a lot of money. That's not a vanity project; that's a business. Now, a Mars shot would be a vanity p…

The parent called it a vanity project.

So he did. My apologies.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#70

Post by Aqueous »

mempko wrote: post #56
Aqueous wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason we have a shot at affordable commercial spaceflight, as well as an eventual affordable journey to Mars, is because of that vanity project. If it was left up to the public sector alone, I don't think we'll be able to go to Mars in 20 or 30 years. But this hasn't really changed. Even in NASA's hey day space missions weren't government-only projects - The space capsules and Saturn V were built by contrac…

Really? Public money got us to the moon in 10 years but couldn't get us to mars in 30? I think it is more about a lack of will than a lack of resources. Driving down costs isn't an issue. Imagine if we had the will to go to mars and spent the one trillion dollars we spent to go to Iraq on a mars project instead. Driving down costs isn't the issue...

Well yes, if we stopped doing stupid things than we might be able to bear the cost of the trip. If we stopped doing stupid things...

But it's also a lack of will because we don't have a rival as formidable as Russia threatening to beat us to the punch. Well, at least not at the moment. Russia looks more and more like it has the desire to play the role again - the desire, but probably not the ability. And if that's true, there's always China. In fact I wouldn't be totally surprised if China's increasing interest in space were the thing that finally got Americans to Mars.

But failing that, what's going to get us to commit the resources to a risky mission like travelling to Mars? A trip whose only reward is first saying we've been there, and only down the road a few decades the ability to colonize it and mine its natural resources?

The only thing more powerful in the nation's mind than projecting military power is money...and maybe that will be enough to get us there....

Post reply on HN