Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

thenitai.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 358 posts

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#131

Post by workhere-io »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #119
workhere-io wrote: post #74

As the article states, Denmark, while having high taxes, is very business-friendly: Very little bureaucracy, almost zero corruption, English-speaking population, relatively cheap apartments ($1,850 per month for a newly constructed two-bedroom apartment in central Copenhagen) and very low expenses of health care and firing people. Also, while wages are generally very high, they're not high compared to Silicon Valley…

How does that translate to software startups? I haven't seen many on HN, for whatever that means.

Skype started in Denmark, as did Bitbucket, Zendesk, Podio, Unity, SteelSeries, AppHarbor, Tradeshift, Endomondo, Iconfinder, Momondo, TrustPilot and many others (http://starrt.dk/startups).

European software startups that need a huge infusion of capital tend to move some of their business to Silicon Valley while sometimes maintaining a development department back home (e.g., Unity is now headquartered in San Francisco while having its chief development department in Copenhagen, AFAIK).

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#132

Post by Dewie »

digitalengineer wrote: post #12
jdimov wrote: post #2

Spot-on. Also, don't get me started on mobile internet and broadband. Every time I go to America it's like going to a 3rd world country.

America is big and as different as Europe. Even though most Americans speak English, it's not a uniform country as us Europeans think. But don't confuse the people with the state. They're not the same. The Americans I met were generally quite nice and willing to help an (obvious) tourist out. Bureaucrats? They thrive in chaos.

> and as different as Europe.

How? I just have a hard time imagining how a place with dozens of languages and cultures (I think that cultures with very different languages are likely to be very different from each other) and all of that can be less varied than a place like the US.

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#133

Post by nitai »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #124
beagle3 wrote: post #58

And ... the article doesn't touch on it, but that goes triple on personal tax issues -- especially if you do not sever your ties to your previous states of residence. The US tax code, as evidenced by FBAR and FATCA, assumes that the only purpose of any financial transaction or account outside the US, is to hide money from the IRS. You have to report each and every "account", with contact details at the institution, e…

That's actually a huge problem for US citizens living in Switzerland. Since the US nowadays puts so much pressure on Swiss banks most - if not all of them - are extremely reluctant to open bank accounts for US citizens.

It is not only an issue for US citizens, also for people who have been with the same bank for 30+ years and now leaving abroad. You can either pay tones of fees and at least have $50k in the account or you are forced to take your money elsewhere.

Luxembourg and Lichtenstein will gladly take you money, though ;-)

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#134

Post by philiphodgen »

I am an international tax lawyer and this stuff is my day job. Consider this comment an AMA.

For smaller companies, the bureaucratic cost of international tax systems is insane. For US citizens abroad ... I will just say that my biggest area of growth is helping people shed their US citizenship and tax paperwork/penalties is the number 1 reason.

Anyway. If you are in a position like The One and Only Netai -- or don't want to be -- AMA.

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#135

Post by throwaway_yy2Di »

workhere-io wrote: post #131
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that translate to software startups? I haven't seen many on HN, for whatever that means.

Skype started in Denmark, as did Bitbucket, Zendesk, Podio, Unity, SteelSeries, AppHarbor, Tradeshift, Endomondo, Iconfinder, Momondo, TrustPilot and many others ( http://starrt.dk/startups ). European software startups that need a huge infusion of capital tend to move some of their business to Silicon Valley while sometimes maintaining a development department back home (e.g., Unity is now headquartered in San Franc…

Wow that's a long list!

edit: I count 249 startups,

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9529391

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#136

Post by nitai »

joelreymont wrote: post #125
dijit wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to NYC/Philly/NJ last summer.. T-Mobile barely exists out of the city itself, and yeah, speeds are abysmal. $50 for a sim card too... Anecdotally I went to the Swedish countryside in january; where I got 16Mb/s over 3g. (and it was free because: EU roaming is free on my carrier)

What carrier offers free EU roaming?

T-Mobile!

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#137

Post by STRML »

philiphodgen wrote: post #134

I am an international tax lawyer and this stuff is my day job. Consider this comment an AMA. For smaller companies, the bureaucratic cost of international tax systems is insane. For US citizens abroad ... I will just say that my biggest area of growth is helping people shed their US citizenship and tax paperwork/penalties is the number 1 reason. Anyway. If you are in a position like The One and Only Netai -- or don't…

It's something I've considered. As a now resident of Hong Kong, I was surprised - and delighted - with how incredibly easy it was to handle my taxes. Front-to-back, I could do the whole thing, including payment, in less than an hour and understand the whole system.

Unfortunately, it is nowhere near so simple in the US, and they have no regard for expats. The US treats its expats worse than any other country in the world. The forms are atrocious. And I could go on about being taxed heavily for services I don't use.

Unfortunately, relinquishing citizenship is just not possible for most, including me. With family and obligations, it's just not realistic. But it is appealing.

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#138

Post by crusso »

mjolk wrote: post #18

> All of a sudden, we were forced to figure out, how much we actually sold in each of those states, where we hired people Not to be offensive, but differences in state rules should have been expected, given the name of the country. How hard do you think it would be to get a random sample of 50 people to decide on a movie? Now swap people with territories and movie with governance. This blog post is just ranting and w…

As a nation and a culture, the USA has decided that business and business concerns aren't as important as they once were. I'd go so far as to say that there has been a great deal of hostility toward businesses lately. Financial success in the mainstream media has become something to criticize and suspect as "ill gotten".

There's a reason why the USA continues to drop in business freedom rankings. It's not just this one guy's whining.

As an American, I don't want to run away from this criticism. I think we should own it and make decisions about what to do about it based upon acceptance of it, not rationalization and denial.

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#139

Post by STRML »

nitai wrote: post #101
beagle3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the most ridiculous thing about it: Whether you are an American who moved to a treaty country, or a treaty country resident who moved to the US, it is not likely that you'll have to pay a lot of US taxes if at all. (The treaties I am familiar with are quite reasonable). However, unless you are a tax professional yourself, you are going to be "taxed" by a professional to prepare all those papers that yo…

Additionally, the US is one of the few countries that punish their citizens with US tax even when they don't live in the US anymore...

It is, effectively, the only country in the world that does this. It's shameful.

http://hodgen.com/does-the-united-states-stand-alone/

Re: Why you might not want to incorporate in the USA

#140

Post by workhere-io »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #122
workhere-io wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but note that public transportation is much better, and riding your bicycle is easier. Denmark has one of the lowest daily commute times in the OECD countries according to the graph on http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2011/10/american-co... Basicly any type of vehicle becomes twice as expensive No, not vehicles used for business. The high taxes are on personal cars.

What's impressive about Copenhagen's transport is the driverless, electronic metro that runs 24 hours a day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro

Yup, you get to pretend to be the driver if you sit up front :) http://www.kongper.dk/foto_stor/metro1f.jpg
Post reply on HN