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Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

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Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#161

Post by jfoster »

Now this is being denied: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-13/malaysia-airlines-mh37...

The same happened with the reports of the radar capturing it drastically off-course. First it looked like a sure thing, and then it was eventually completely denied. Perhaps that's just a symptom of such an intensely-analyzed ongoing news story, though.

I do feel a bit sorry for the Malaysian government. They don't get to control what the media prints, but are expected to immediately confirm/deny everything (difficult with the volume of reports they are likely dealing with!), and to some extent get chastised when the media prints stuff that later gets busted.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#162

Post by kalleboo »

jfoster wrote: post #132
raquo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it malfunctions you don't want it to overheat and burn the plane down. Thus the ability to cut power.

One might say the same about all of the electronic devices on planes. Cellphones and the like.

And this is why Li-ion batteries are no longer allowed in checked bags.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#163

Post by pdabbadabba »

jfoster wrote: post #161

Now this is being denied: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-13/malaysia-airlines-mh37... The same happened with the reports of the radar capturing it drastically off-course. First it looked like a sure thing, and then it was eventually completely denied. Perhaps that's just a symptom of such an intensely-analyzed ongoing news story, though. I do feel a bit sorry for the Malaysian government. They don't get to contro…

Yes, though the off-course radar contacts were eventually acknowledged after having been reported, and then completely denied.

From the New York Times: "On Wednesday, after four days of reticence and evasive answers, the Malaysian military acknowledged that it had recorded, but initially ignored, radar signals that could have prompted a mission to intercept and track the missing jetliner. The radar data vastly expanded the area where the plane, which took off early Saturday from Kuala Lumpur for Beijing, might have traveled." http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/world/asia/missing-malaysi...

With that track record it's hard to know whether to credit the Malaysian government's vehement denials.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#164

Post by red_hammer »

notthetup wrote: post #37
x0x0 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the necessary transmission origin data wasn't recorded? I bet the fbi is right now going through boeing's network trying to figure that out though. Is it bounced through satellites? You'd think a XXX million dollar plane would have a gps beacon or something though, just like atm machines. It would be a miracle if it where hijacked and there's even a chance those people are alive.

They have a GPS beacon. The ADS-B system is exactly that. It just stopped transmitting. Apparently it can be manually turned off from the cockpit. Or it malfunctioned.

Do they know for sure it stopped transmitting? The problem with ADS-B is that it is lost over large ranges, like oceans.

A space-based system to track aircraft globally is currently in the works. http://www.aireon.com/Solutions/TheGlobalAdvantage

edit: Here is an informative ADS-B coverage map I found: http://uk.flightaware.com/adsb/coverage

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#165

Post by pdabbadabba »

sentenza wrote: post #115
rz2k wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It would be perfectly possible for co-conspirator plane to fly transponder-less up to the target plane, take over the transponder code, and fly decoy on the official route, while the MH370 goes elsewhere. Since we know nothing, a lot remains open, but that is some of the most bizarre conjecture I can imagine. A 777 flies at an altitude and velocity because it is optimal. Arrive at the right altitude and location, sp…

By method of elimination, the only nation-state that is insane enough to try something like this and has a non-zero chance to keep it under wraps is North Korea. But, given the position that the plane disappeared, it is IMO impossible to fly to North Korea without being detected. My conclusion is thus: No conspiracy.

Yes. North Korea also appears to have been too far away: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AI-CH295_MALMAP_G_...

Of course, it could have been flown someplace else.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#166

Post by ZoF »

jfoster wrote: post #159
rschmitty wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man what are you doing! We can finally use our devices during take off and now you hint at keeping them off permanently! Eek! :P I'm sure the first battery meltdown/fire on a plane is going to cause a riot in the news but the odds...

That did cross my mind when I posted it. I should point out that I don't know what is true. It just seems to be a contradiction that every passenger can take on board and use whatever they want in-flight, yet transponders specially engineered to be safe on a plane must be able to be disabled. I suspect the answer is that the transponder doesn't need to be under the control of anyone on the plane.

The answer is that when there's 100+ planes parked at an airport it's confusing to have 100's of transponders on as other planes are trying to land.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#167

Post by sp332 »

jfoster wrote: post #132
raquo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it malfunctions you don't want it to overheat and burn the plane down. Thus the ability to cut power.

One might say the same about all of the electronic devices on planes. Cellphones and the like.

https://xkcd.com/651/

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#168

Post by [deleted] »

sentenza wrote: post #115
rz2k wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It would be perfectly possible for co-conspirator plane to fly transponder-less up to the target plane, take over the transponder code, and fly decoy on the official route, while the MH370 goes elsewhere. Since we know nothing, a lot remains open, but that is some of the most bizarre conjecture I can imagine. A 777 flies at an altitude and velocity because it is optimal. Arrive at the right altitude and location, sp…

By method of elimination, the only nation-state that is insane enough to try something like this and has a non-zero chance to keep it under wraps is North Korea. But, given the position that the plane disappeared, it is IMO impossible to fly to North Korea without being detected. My conclusion is thus: No conspiracy.

[deleted]

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#169

Post by hrkristian »

clef wrote: post #129
mutert wrote: post #93

Biggest mystery.

Indeed. It looks like everything either malfunctioned or was intentionally turned off all at once. A long time ago one of my servers had a very crude monitoring system, it would send me an email every half hour saying "I'm still alive!". Hard to believe that kind of simple thing can't be implemented on a 21st century airliner ( or maybe it is, then forgive my ignorance please). A simple beep beep signal saying "I'm s…

Planes do have that, the engines also report automatically to a ground base every thirty minutes. The aforementioned trackers can be shut off in the cockpit, however, which seems to have happened.

It's unclear whether or not the engines actually have been reporting for hours, as Rolls Royce are apparently denying it according to some comments further up.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#170

Post by mikeash »

downandout wrote: post #102

This begs the question: why on earth is it even possible to turn off a transponder mid-flight on a commercial plane carrying hundreds of human beings? I also don't understand why, if we can send bursts of engine data every 30 minutes from the middle of the ocean, we can't send a GPS location every couple of minutes. Maybe even throw some GPS data in with the engine data - at least we would know where it was within a…

If you can't trust the pilot then you can't trust the equipment either. Civil aviation requires a lot of trust, so there's no real reason to try to lock out the transponder.

Once the pilot is not trustworthy, you've entered the realm of military defense, and a lot of that is built around the ability to track targets that don't want to be tracked.

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