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Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

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Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#211

Post by stank345 »

antirez wrote: post #120
bsenftner wrote: post #25

As a long term developer of entertainment software, I totally agree with his point of view about the impact one's software has upon the lives of the user. The general acceptance goes that the crazies and depressed will be triggered by something and its not your fault if something provocative you worked on triggers an incident. That's what the group think tells us, but in ones personal reality it's not that easy to sh…

To be fair, seen from outside, this seems something strange and, in my opinion, not good about the American culture: there is always somebody to blame for your problem, a reason why you are acting in a given way, an external cause if you suffer a medical problem, eat too much, put all the kind of pills in your body, and so forth. Probably this is representative only of a minority, but from the outside this looks like…

I would say the problem is people blaming the proximate but not the absolute causes. In a lot of cases, society sets people up to fail and then blames them when they do. In your overeating example, the problem is that we have tons of highly available, cheap, unhealthy food being marketed to you 24/7. The proximate cause of your obesity might be that you eat too much, but the absolute one is a combination of capitalism, technology, and human physiology.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#212

Post by stcredzero »

fit2rule wrote: post #171
stcredzero wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People haven't changed. There have always been trolls, malcontents, crazies. Attend any public hearing, ask any fan club or newspaper mail room. Yes, but now the seductive idea that one can improve the world by getting one's teenage hormonal aggression out on somebody "who deserves it" is beamed into people's living rooms and onto devices in their pocket, complete with calls to action. How many teenagers do you know…

Sorry but haven't you just become what you resist? Who are these 'bad teenagers' and why do they need to be punished?

Please re-read. "Getting it" doesn't mean getting punished. It can also mean having a realization.

Also, it's an unwarranted assumption that teenage aggression is only held onto by teenagers.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#213

Post by trillium »

lutusp wrote: post #210
sanoli wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why is this so hard for people to understand? Once you have enough so that you don't have to work anymore and live comfortably, one choice is to stop and actually do it. I already have my mark set, f I by any chance get 1.5 million US$, I'll quit. Even if I could keep on getting more and reach twice that.

> I already have my mark set, f I by any chance get 1.5 million US$, I'll quit. That's the Workaholic Test™ -- if you make a million dollars, do you drop everything and sit on a beach somewhere reading a worthwhile novel, or do you move the goal posts and carry on toward a new, less realistic goal? Most people won't make a million dollars, so most people will never know whether they're workaholics.

I greatly enjoy working on my startups, ideas and projects. If I had 5 million dollars, I would just change how I work.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#214

Post by dllthomas »

electromagnetic wrote: post #203
minikites wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Example: a violent game can be a way to express violence of an otherwise repressed person, or some other people that is having a few bad weeks, is finding an escape playing at it. Yeah, that's not actually true. "Letting your anger out" makes you angrier. http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/

This is quite misleading. Yes, letting your anger out can make you angrier in the long term - providing the right circumstances. Why? Because if anger becomes socially acceptable, you're more likely to express it. However, saying everyone should bottle it up is trying to take an extreme and apply it to everyone. Anger is an emotional response to a situation, much like depression. If you don't change your situation, y…

"Why? Because if anger becomes socially acceptable, you're more likely to express it."

I don't think it's just social. In general, "X, then I Y and it feels good" reinforces behavior Y when I do it. Neurons are trained over time, and your brain works differently. My understanding is that studies have supported this regarding "venting" in general, but have not shown this particularly with violent video games (which means likely you're not "venting" at all, really, by playing games).

"This is like someone who's depressed because they're in an abusive relationship taking antidepressants rather than leaving the relationship. You're treating symptoms, not dealing with causes."

Causes should be dealt with, but venting is not necessarily dealing with causes - whether I go play video games or slink off and punch a pillow or whatever. Even when venting has some effect on causes (my demonstration of anger is observable and so you notice there's actually a problem, and hopefully we deal with it) it's not likely to be the best way to deal with it.

'To me, it's looking at the chicken and the egg problem and saying "oh my god, eggs cause more eggs! Let's get rid of all the eggs." It's wholly naive. If you don't want eggs, just get rid of the god damn chicken!'

If you do a good job getting rid of all the eggs, time will get rid of the chickens. If getting rid of eggs is easier or seen as more ethical or whatever, it may well be the right approach to wiping out chickens. (Actually, as I recall it's been pretty effective - DDT put a few species on the endangered species list by thinning their egg shells).

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#215

Post by dllthomas »

stcredzero wrote: post #146
hsod wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples of "new and pointless forms of prejudice"?

Guys who wear Fedoras = woman hating MRMs?

As a guy who wears fedoras, I am offended. Now, if you restrict it to "Guys short brim fedoras and aren't jazz musicians"...

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#216

Post by JabavuAdams »

antirez wrote: post #120
bsenftner wrote: post #25

As a long term developer of entertainment software, I totally agree with his point of view about the impact one's software has upon the lives of the user. The general acceptance goes that the crazies and depressed will be triggered by something and its not your fault if something provocative you worked on triggers an incident. That's what the group think tells us, but in ones personal reality it's not that easy to sh…

To be fair, seen from outside, this seems something strange and, in my opinion, not good about the American culture: there is always somebody to blame for your problem, a reason why you are acting in a given way, an external cause if you suffer a medical problem, eat too much, put all the kind of pills in your body, and so forth. Probably this is representative only of a minority, but from the outside this looks like…

You make some good points, but games are a special case. Making something fun is not really that different from making it addictive. There's a huge grey area and lots of room for cognitive dissonance / rationalization among game creators. We've learned a lot about addiction, and people are not nearly as rational as they want to believe.

My thinking is that many of the people who are really passionate about making games have somewhat addictive personalities. I.e. there are some people who would just never stay up 'till 3 am playing a game when there's something more "important" to do, whereas game creators have turned this flaw into a virtue (and a career).

EDIT> I love games, and I have a great job making games, but I'm 38 and I now realize that I spent way too much time playing games in my 20's. While it is a matter of self-control, I do have some guilt that some kid is going to fail their Compilers exam because they'd rather play computer games instead of studying, like me circa 1995.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#217

Post by JabavuAdams »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #76
Blahah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others might say chasing $50k/day is a stupid thing to do. With enough money to live off, plenty of people seek happiness elsewhere.

Yes but let's be clear, he was making $50k/day with no effort of his own besides the work he did last year. There was no chase or action to give up, so his motives lied elsewhere.

Beyond basic survival, money's a tool that lets you avoid having to do annoying things or to deal with annoying people. What is annoying is deeply personal. So if pursuing the tool to de-annoy your life is more annoying than some threshold, it stops being worth it.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#218

Post by fit2rule »

stcredzero wrote: post #212
fit2rule wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but haven't you just become what you resist? Who are these 'bad teenagers' and why do they need to be punished?

Please re-read. "Getting it" doesn't mean getting punished. It can also mean having a realization. Also, it's an unwarranted assumption that teenage aggression is only held onto by teenagers.

I know what "getting it" means. So now you're targetting people who "don't get it" .. is this one of those chase-the-tail until the snake disappears threads?

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#219

Post by legohead »

neolefty wrote: post #152
legohead wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or he spent money on buying votes for his game and rather than deal with a ToS breach and lose his money, he took it off the market.

Please stop repeating rumors with no evidence.

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence to support this theory. Looking at the rating history of the game.

Re: Flappy Bird Creator Dong Nguyen Speaks Out

#220

Post by stcredzero »

dllthomas wrote: post #215
stcredzero wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guys who wear Fedoras = woman hating MRMs?

As a guy who wears fedoras, I am offended. Now, if you restrict it to "Guys short brim fedoras and aren't jazz musicians"...

Basically, the whole series of prejudicial fictions involving fedoras and then there's another series involving neckbeards. It's all shallow, based on appearances.
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