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Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

rubiquity.com

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Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#21

Post by steve-howard »

area51org wrote: post #5
pnathan wrote: post #2

I've seen this cycle a few times. Let me handwave how it goes: * Agile Critisism: The snake oil is all over and getting worse! * Agilista: It's not done properly ! * Agile Criticism: No True Scotsman! I think the NTS is where things usually leave the line and end up in a lot of splutters and anecdotes. Sometimes I wonder if the great flamewars and their arguments should be canonized into standard textfiles and passed…

In this guy's defense, there is a lot of Fake Agile out there. People (business people, project managers, mostly) seem to think that Agile means using a new set of buzzwords. Standups? They're daily status reports to management, right?

It was in my organization that I first heard the word "Scrummerfall." People learn the tools (stand-up meetings! Stories! Sprints!) but not everyone bothers to grok the purpose (I haven't seen "good agile" yet so neither have I).

Agile certainly isn't unique in this regard. I've seen an MVC project with only one action on only one controller which had a ton of parameters to control its behavior. There's a balance between "I need to thoroughly understand how to use this concept idiomatically" and "I don't have time to read up on another buzzword."

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#22

Post by nahname »

jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

How big is your team?

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#23

Post by MartinCron »

jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

I absolutely agree that there is no silver bullet. But there are quite a few lead bullets that when aimed accurately can make a real difference.

None of them are prescriptive methodologies, though. They are all things like incrementalism, automation, and high quality code.

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#24

Post by contactmatts »

jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

"...a coding team's only salvation is smart coders."

Yes!

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#25

Post by rubiquity »

jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

Very likely, you have agility without even striving for it. I've met some teams that didn't adhere to "Agile" but were still working in an agile way. It's very possible to have agility without labeling yourself. Kudos to you.

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#27

Post by MartinCron »

jbondeson wrote: post #16

Repeat after me: "Scrum is Agile, but Agile is not Scrum" The Agile Manifesto is a simple set of 4 values and 12 principles to aid in building software, that's it. The different signers of the manifesto had different visions of implementing it, Schwaber's was Scrum, Beck's was XP. Saying that a particular methodology isn't a silver bullet therefore it's Agile's fault is a bit like saying science is dead when we dispr…

I don't even agree that Scrum is agile. It's a one-size-fits-all prescriptive methodology with rigidly defined schedules, rituals, and roles.

If I had the memory erasing device from the Men In Black movies, I would use it on people who advocate for by-the-book scrum.

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#28

Post by jarrett »

rubiquity wrote: post #25
jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

Very likely, you have agility without even striving for it. I've met some teams that didn't adhere to "Agile" but were still working in an agile way. It's very possible to have agility without labeling yourself. Kudos to you.

Thanks! Yes, I'd say "agile" is an accurate adjective for how I work. It's the work style towards which I gravitate, absent any external pressure. Agility with a lowercase "A" that is, because I don't claim to meet any official definition of Agility.

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#29

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

"a coding team's only salvation is smart coders"

Smart coders who understand that they're part of a team.

I've seen at least as many problems caused by people not working with those around them (whether they be other developers, users, testers or whoever) as caused by rank stupidity.

That's not to say there needs to be a massively formalised way of working together, just the fact that other people are involved needs to be a central part of everyone's thinking.

EDIT: A central and constructive part of their thinking I should say - thinking "I need to steer clear of all these other bozos" I guess qualifies as a central part of someone's thinking but isn't what I was getting at.

Re: Agile Is Dead: The Angry Developer Version

#30

Post by jarrett »

nahname wrote: post #22
jarrett wrote: post #11

In the trenches, methodologies don't get projects done. Dave Thomas's original description of agility seems an accurate description of how code actually gets made--and that description is deliberately not a description of a methodology. I ship working code every day, and my clients are happy, despite the fact that I'm not following any definable methodology. Coding is a messy process. Codebases evolve in many ways: T…

How big is your team?

One team varies from three to six people. Another has maybe 20.

The larger team definitely produces more intermediate artifacts than the smaller team. You could say there's more process in that team. But it's still not formalized as a methodology. The larger team mostly just muddles along. I'd actually prefer to organize the larger team's tools a little better, e.g. maintaining a single, sane VCS. Even if we did that, I wouldn't claim we're following a methodology. (By my definition, artifacts and tools do not a methodology make.)

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