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Evicted in San Francisco

priceonomics.com

231–240 of 257 posts

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly what we should do. Or, more accurately, we should leave it to private citizens to decide, of their own free will, to render assistance (and prevent anybody from using the state's threat of violence to force an entire society to render assistance.) Until the full dangers of death and failure operate as incentives, moderated only by the free choice of individuals to cooperate and render assistance, o…

I think that your worst-case doomsday prophecies for what our current system will lead to are hugely, overwhelmingly preferable to your alternative.

I don't think you understand at all what I advocate.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that your worst-case doomsday prophecies for what our current system will lead to are hugely, overwhelmingly preferable to your alternative.

I don't think you understand at all what I advocate.

You advocate, in your own words, allowing people to die on the street unless private citizens decide to render assistance. I would far, far rather have state aid than that.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#233
The real issue is a systems issue caused by an artificially induced shortage of housing caused by "rent seeking" (politics that induce artificial shortages) through zoning ordinances.

While convenient and emotionally satisfying to fingerpoint and blame SV higher incomes for the increased cost of housing, the real cause is the zoning ordinances which help wealthy landowners increase their income not through creativity and wealth creation but through politics.

Remove the "rent seeking" political constraints on an efficient housing market and you will go along way towards fixing the problem of people getting displaced by higher rents.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco is twice is dense as Los Angeles. 17,620/sq mi vs 8,225/sq mi. New York is the only city of a s similar size or larger that is more dense than Sn Francisco. San Francisco is more dense than Chicago, Boston, Seattle, Philadelphia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_francisco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_angeles The Bay Area as a whole is less dense than the LA Metropolitan area.

That's just a historical accident of municipal lines. For whatever reason San Francisco didn't incorporate its inner suburbs while those other cities did. SF isn't functionally similarly to NYC or Chicago, it's more like Manhattan or the Central + North side. Both are considerably denser. It's true that the Bay Area as a whole needs to get denser, but SF proper needs to lead the way.

Correct - that's the basis of my thesis. That "SF" isn't necessarily more NIMBYistic than sub-regions of other cities that have had "high" (say, 15,000 residents/sq mi or more) density for an extended period of time. If those other areas had experienced a similar historical accident of municipal lines (ie, only those parts of a Chicago that have exceeded 15,000+ residents per square mile since the 1950s were considered "Chicago"), the thesis is that SF and those sub regions wouldn't show on average dramatically different levels of opposition to new development.

I guess another phrase this thesis is that SF's apparant NIMBYism is a misleading artifact of what you describe as a "historical accident of municipal lines."

This distortion, of course, can make SF look good as well as bad. You can pump SF up by talking about the ratio of :Resident compared to Houston, or Chicago, or LA, conveniently ignoring the fact that in Chicago, the residential suburbs are counted, whereas in SF, they aren't. My guess is that this ratio in LA or Chicago's densest 48 square miles would look quite similar to SF. Or, alternatively, you can make SF look bad by excluding the sort of developments that favor the burbs (such as percentage of households with children - when a family moves from SF to Redwood City, SF "loses" a family - in many areas, this would just be considered a move within the region).

Good or bad, my thesis is that these differences are largely an artifact of how the borders are drawn, rather than innate cultural differences between SF and other metropolitan areas. I don't doubt that these cultural difference exist (and they may in fact be driven by the fact that the electorate in SF isn't diluted by the votes in the surrounding areas), but I think they may be greatly overstated.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unless their landlord is able to evict them for whatever reason. (And, to be clear, all or essentially all rental units in SF are subject to rent control).

Here are the major exemptions to Rent Control in SF: 1. You live in a building constructed after June of 1979. 2. You live in subsidized housing, such as HUD housing projects. 3. You live in a dormitory, monastery, nunnery, etc. 4. You live in a residential hotel and have less than 28 days of continuous tenancy. So most of the new developments in the last 30 years aren't covered by RC.

I hadn't realized the post-1979 thing! Sorry for the misinformation above. I guess that every place I ever considered renting in SF was an older building.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#236

The real issue is a systems issue caused by an artificially induced shortage of housing caused by "rent seeking" (politics that induce artificial shortages) through zoning ordinances. While convenient and emotionally satisfying to fingerpoint and blame SV higher incomes for the increased cost of housing, the real cause is the zoning ordinances which help wealthy landowners increase their income not through creativity…

You can change the rate, but with an expanding planet and continuing flight to cities there's no end in sight. So ultimately, old people quit being able to afford where they live. It's not going to change soon, but as you observe you may be able to change the rate at which it occurs.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like she moved there when it was cheap. Is it reasonable to expect her to leave her friends, contacts, etc that she's built up over decades because the city is changing? Housing isn't widgets: it's not easy to move to a cheaper type if your current type gets expensive. There isn't an easy answer to this sort of problem, but to imply that she should simply "move somewhere else" is simplistic in the extreme.…

My parents bought their house in the 1980s. They paid it off 100%. When they retired they moved. Would it have been preferable to keep the house the whole family grew up in? Probably. But they couldn't afford the overhead of utilities, maintenance, etc. They moved to a smaller house in a state with lower property taxes. They too left their friends, contacts, etc. Built up over living there for 35 years. But it was th…

Pfft, "responsible" my ass. They left the life they built behind because they couldn't afford to keep it.

That's horrendously sad.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where what happens to you in your old age is entirely determined by the choices you make when you're younger, and where the correct choices will absolutely guarantee that you have the proper resources available, this would be an excellent idea. In my world, though, there are layoffs, long periods of unemployment, expensive catastrophic events, and generally a whole heapin' helpin' of reasons why people may…

Sorry, what? Risk and uncertainty are universal. Everyone has to deal with their existence. There have been plenty of insurance systems developed throughout time whereby people can hedge their risks. Previously however insurance was informal and consensual - you signed up to a Roman college. You and everyone else in the society engaged in it of your own free choice. If your group couldn't manage its finances it went…

The existing systems were created out of necessity, and were fundamental to the establishment of the middle class.

You talk about Roman College as if it were something available to the destitute, 70-year old serf? Come on.

Today we have millions of people working full-time jobs, making less than a living wage. That is a structural, societal problem, and no planning on an individual laborer's level is going to counter that.

How about you get back to us on your 50th birthday and tell us if the best way for minimum wage laborers to pay for basic healthcare is to beg rich people?

The only thing rich people hate more than taxes is bums. Something about moral deficiency, right?

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#239
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sounds pretty smart to me. Sure. Sometimes it's pretty smart to screw other people over. I guess it just depends on what kind of person you are.

Are you referring to the person who bought a property knowing about an illegal rental unit and ultimately took their money for years until it was opportune to kick out the nearly destitute leasee?

Are you actually missing the point this badly or just ignoring it on purpose?

So what is your actual issue? Are you upset someone bought a property with an illegal addition? Once they bought the house, what would they have had to do to retain "nobility"? Let her live there rent free? Immediately kick her out? Re: "until it was opportune to kick out the nearly destitute leasee", again, what is your expectation here? Allow her to perpetually turn your house into a dump, rent free, forever, because she is old and you'd be taking advantage of her in some way by not letting her live rent free in your house forever?

How you make so many intellectually dishonest points in a row while attempting to mock others is just shocking.

Re: Evicted in San Francisco

#240
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference does it make? Pretty much everything has reasons behind it. A diagnosis is just giving one of those reasons a name.

>What difference does it make? to me it does. I think as a society we're at the level when we can allow and thus must allow to cut some slack to disabled people, and temporarily or permanent lack of ability to reason is a disability just like not having a leg for example. When some limping guy with a stick say stumble and hit you while falling, would you deploy your anger like it would be in the case of intentional h…

"to me it does."

How? What action should be taken, given a diagnosis, that should not be taken otherwise?

Do you think she would voluntarily accept treatment that would make the eviction process easier?

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