My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap • Hacker News Board

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#121

Post by jackmaney » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 9:42 PM UTC

mox1 wrote: post #94

jackmaney wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $10 / hour goes a lot further in Kansas than it does D.C. True. > I think a lot of people could live OK in the Midwest on $10 / hour. Ridiculously false. Yes, the cost of living is cheaper in the Midwest, but a lot of people seem to have the idea that it's this land lost in time where a loaf of bread still costs a nickel and where gas is 25 cents a gallon.

Definitely not "Ridiculously false". I've lived in the midwest most of my life. You can live ~1 hour within a major metropolitan area (minus chicago) and rent an apartment for $500-$800 a month. $10 / hour is $20,800 a year. At that rate your effectively paying 0% tax and you probably qualify for heat assistance, free insurance, etc. I didn't say live like a King. I basically said meant live life.

And what will you drive? Living in prettymuch any Midwestern city requires driving (or someone to drive you around). Public transportation is abysmal, and distances are large.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#122

Post by eli_gottlieb » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

mox1 wrote: post #94

jackmaney wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $10 / hour goes a lot further in Kansas than it does D.C. True. > I think a lot of people could live OK in the Midwest on $10 / hour. Ridiculously false. Yes, the cost of living is cheaper in the Midwest, but a lot of people seem to have the idea that it's this land lost in time where a loaf of bread still costs a nickel and where gas is 25 cents a gallon.

Definitely not "Ridiculously false". I've lived in the midwest most of my life. You can live ~1 hour within a major metropolitan area (minus chicago) and rent an apartment for $500-$800 a month. $10 / hour is $20,800 a year. At that rate your effectively paying 0% tax and you probably qualify for heat assistance, free insurance, etc. I didn't say live like a King. I basically said meant live life.

A salary that qualifies for and requires public assistance is not a liveable salary.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#123

Post by eli_gottlieb » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 10:01 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #22

alistairSH wrote: post #19

"I guess [you] don’t care about hard work or loyalty." -- Stretch That's ripe. Pay your employees a low wage, treat them like shit, and then expect loyalty? Gimme a break. Loyalty is a two-way street and I don't see any reciprocation from corporate America (in this case, or in general).

When a job is low skill, they have a huge pool of labor they can draw from. There really isn't any need to treat employees well, since there are so many applicants. I think it is fairly simple. The more in-demand your skills are, the better you can expect to treated by your employer because you have options. Is this 'right'? I don't know. But it seems to be how things work.

Then why is this Mr. "Stretch" citing virtue ethics as justification? He should just come out and admit that he's invoking Might Makes Right.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#124

Post by nicholas73 » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 10:20 PM UTC

I recently heard from someone who worked at Target that each day the managers would lock the doors after the last customer left, and physically lock the employees in. Nobody was allowed to leave until they were done checking for theft. This would last 10-15 minutes, and they didn't get paid for this time.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#125

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 10:23 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #87

sliverstorm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of your argument is unconvincing. Service jobs have to be near the wealthy? What kind of myopia is that? Un-wealthy people go out to eat and get their car repaired just as much as Richie Rich. Yes, if nobody but tech workers come to San Francisco, the city will collapse. But that doesn't mean everybody else has to live there too. It's also awful presumptuous to say, "Well I'm wealthy, this is where I want to…

> The crux of your argument is unconvincing. Service jobs have to be near the wealthy? What kind of myopia is that? Actually, what's myopic is this: > Un-wealthy people go out to eat and get their car repaired just as much as Richie Rich. People who aren't wealthy don't eat out as much and don't spend nearly as much when they go out to eat. They buy food that has smaller margins and expect less in the way of service,…

People who aren't wealthy don't eat out as much and don't spend nearly as much when they go out to eat.

My apologies, I didn't mean they spend the exact same $$$. Poor choice in wording on my part. My point is being poor doesn't mean your car never needs a mechanic.

And of course service jobs have to be near the wealthy. When it doesn't matter where a worker is located, that job gets outsourced.

Non sequitur. Plenty of un-outsourceable jobs exist serving people who are not wealthy.

You can dream all you want of a utopia where people can live in the middle of nowhere and have their ideal job. But that isn't going to make it a reality.

Where do I speak of dream jobs? I'm just saying it's awfully self-centered to think that the poor exist to serve the wealthy.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#126

Post by eli_gottlieb » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 10:28 PM UTC

OhHeyItsE wrote: post #69

absolutely terrifying. This kind of stuff keeps me up at night.

Not to belabor the point, but could someone please attempt to explain what rational goal is served by our society's choices to keep entire segments of the population in conditions the well-off regard as absolutely terrifying nightmare lives?

Controlling the people through fear doesn't sound like the "free world", you know.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#127

Post by acheron » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 10:41 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #5

scarmig wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm betting more than a few HN folk qualify as a "person who's had white-collar job for years [who] doesn't get how difficult service jobs are." I'm actually impressed that we don't (yet) have a chorus of people saying he's overpaid or that he deserves it.

The guy was a reporter who made racist jokes and comments about people he was supposed to be covering, and subsequently got fired for it. And then, surprise, no one else wanted to hire him to do reporting. [1] "deserves" is a strong word, but actions have consequences. [1] Until now, I guess?

Huh, that's a lot of downvotes. Sorry for, you know, mentioning an event that occurred that provides context for the article.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#128

Post by rayiner » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 11:02 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #119

josephschmoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burdening these people by making fewer of them have to do crummy, hellish work? I'm soooo sorry for eliminating work no one wants to do. Unemployment isn't an engineer or an MBA's fault. It's the fault of shareholders, executives and congressmen: they're the ones hoarding the money at the top. I guarantee you, if the money went to the engineers, we'd have 98% employment right now and the jobs would be a whole lot mor…

Unemployment wasn't what was at issue. It was the structuring of particular jobs in ways that are particularly unpleasant for those who remain simply because it lets you cut one more job. This isn't the fault of all MBAs or all engineers, but it's quite arguably the fault of the particular engineers who built the tools to manage that way and certainly the particular MBAs who chose to deploy those tools in a way that…

You know, I'd never blame anyone for looking out for number one. I just think its sad that one of the easiest things to do as either an engineer or an MBA is figure out how to put people put of work. Much easier than finding a way to put someone to work. I just lament the system is structured that way.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#129

Post by ewoodrich » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 11:24 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #97

richardjordan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you could trust your 'feelings' or you can look at the evidence and determine whether or not Sweden is a prosperous society with a good standard of living, competitive businesses and motivated people.

I visited Sweden for a couple weeks during a school program in high school. My feelings were largely based on my experiences during that trip meeting tons of students and staying with a family there. Honestly there were tons of drugs, little motivation, and a happy yet seemingly poor society. The mom I stayed with complained endlessly about how her lazy son was throwing his life away. Maybe I just had a misleading ex…

Sweden is number 7 in nominal per capita GDP. A couple spots above the US. I would not consider that a "poor" country.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nom...

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#130

Post by w1ntermute » Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 11:43 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #125

w1ntermute wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crux of your argument is unconvincing. Service jobs have to be near the wealthy? What kind of myopia is that? Actually, what's myopic is this: > Un-wealthy people go out to eat and get their car repaired just as much as Richie Rich. People who aren't wealthy don't eat out as much and don't spend nearly as much when they go out to eat. They buy food that has smaller margins and expect less in the way of service,…

People who aren't wealthy don't eat out as much and don't spend nearly as much when they go out to eat. My apologies, I didn't mean they spend the exact same $$$. Poor choice in wording on my part. My point is being poor doesn't mean your car never needs a mechanic. And of course service jobs have to be near the wealthy. When it doesn't matter where a worker is located, that job gets outsourced. Non sequitur. Plenty…

> My point is being poor doesn't mean your car never needs a mechanic.

I know poor people who are decent at basic car maintenance (once again, the sorts of things where you get high margins). I also know wealthy people who are car enthusiasts, but they wouldn't want to get their hands dirty, so they'd rather pay someone to do it for them. You're speaking in absolutes when the market relies on relative differences.

This particular point isn't too significant though, since ideally, most poor people wouldn't need to own a car (they would use public transit instead).

> Non sequitur. Plenty of un-outsourceable jobs exist serving people who are not wealthy.

Non sequitur. The goal is to optimize new job creation. The service industry is one of the fastest growing in America, so it makes sense to harness that.

> Where do I speak of dream jobs? I'm just saying it's awfully self-centered to think that the poor exist to serve the wealthy.

And I'm just saying that worrying about whether the poor can have their dream job (where they don't have to serve the wealthy) is something you can worry about when chronic unemployment hasn't been dragging down the economy for the last several years.