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My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#91

Post by bequanna »

VLM wrote: post #28
bequanna wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a job is low skill, they have a huge pool of labor they can draw from. There really isn't any need to treat employees well, since there are so many applicants. I think it is fairly simple. The more in-demand your skills are, the better you can expect to treated by your employer because you have options. Is this 'right'? I don't know. But it seems to be how things work.

"There really isn't any need to treat employees well" All you have to do is sell your soul and abandon your own humanity. Cheap, right? You can learn a lot about someone, or a culture, by seeing how they treat those less fortunate.

I didn't say I agree with that statement. But it certainly seems to reflect reality.

I personally believe that low-skill/pay workers should be treated better in this country. The important question is: How do we accomplish this? Mandates like higher min. wage? Or, societal pressures of some sort? It doesn't appear that (most) corporations will treat employees better out of the goodness of their heart.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#92

Post by w1ntermute »

givemeabreak wrote: post #90
w1ntermute wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more people would move away from the super high cost of living areas (California, New England, ...etc) and "vote with their feet" so to speak. This is (and has been) happening for years now. Poorer people are reverse-migrating from the denser parts of the country to the Sun Belt. And it's a problem. The high cost of living in many of the "desirable" parts of the country is artificially created by government…

The high cost of living is caused solely by liberals and their zoning policies? Presumably this is why Shanghai, Melbourne, Moscow, Singapore, and Hong Kong are so expensive. Because they're run by liberals. Nothing to do with private markets. Nothing to do with issues related to installed bases. Nothing to do with market forces. Just liberal governments. You libertarians are flipping hilariously stupid sometimes. Wh…

> The high cost of living is caused solely by liberals and their zoning policies?

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. I said that liberals have caused the cost of living to increase in urban areas due to regulation in markets other than housing. Housing regulation is something that both liberals and conservatives engage in.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#93

Post by w1ntermute »

rfrank wrote: post #75
sliverstorm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of your argument is unconvincing. Service jobs have to be near the wealthy? What kind of myopia is that? Un-wealthy people go out to eat and get their car repaired just as much as Richie Rich. Yes, if nobody but tech workers come to San Francisco, the city will collapse. But that doesn't mean everybody else has to live there too. It's also awful presumptuous to say, "Well I'm wealthy, this is where I want to…

That situation also means that the lowest wage workers have to commute the furthest, often (as the author of the article experiences) spending most of their daily pay just getting to and from work. "Move further from your job" is rarely an option.

This can be solved with denser housing and more efficient public transit.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#94

Post by mox1 »

jackmaney wrote: post #59
mox1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out that this story takes place in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. $10 / hour goes a lot further in Kansas than it does D.C. I think a lot of people could live OK in the Midwest on $10 / hour. I wish more people would move away from the super high cost of living areas (California, New England, ...etc) and "vote with their feet" so to speak. If 10% of the populations of Cali a…

> $10 / hour goes a lot further in Kansas than it does D.C. True. > I think a lot of people could live OK in the Midwest on $10 / hour. Ridiculously false. Yes, the cost of living is cheaper in the Midwest, but a lot of people seem to have the idea that it's this land lost in time where a loaf of bread still costs a nickel and where gas is 25 cents a gallon.

Definitely not "Ridiculously false". I've lived in the midwest most of my life. You can live ~1 hour within a major metropolitan area (minus chicago) and rent an apartment for $500-$800 a month.

$10 / hour is $20,800 a year. At that rate your effectively paying 0% tax and you probably qualify for heat assistance, free insurance, etc.

I didn't say live like a King. I basically said meant live life.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#95

Post by bequanna »

pnathan wrote: post #25
bequanna wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a job is low skill, they have a huge pool of labor they can draw from. There really isn't any need to treat employees well, since there are so many applicants. I think it is fairly simple. The more in-demand your skills are, the better you can expect to treated by your employer because you have options. Is this 'right'? I don't know. But it seems to be how things work.

That's the point of closed shops & unions, right? To limit the pool of labor contractually to force better working conditions...

But it is artificial. How can you strongarm management into paying you more what they would have to pay a non-union worker?

There are plenty of manufacturing examples where unions demand higher than market wages, and companies simply relocate operations.

BTW, both of my parents are union workers. I support their goals, but I think the idea of a union is outdated and ultimately counterproductive.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#96

Post by vijayr »

acheron wrote: post #5
scarmig wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm betting more than a few HN folk qualify as a "person who's had white-collar job for years [who] doesn't get how difficult service jobs are." I'm actually impressed that we don't (yet) have a chorus of people saying he's overpaid or that he deserves it.

The guy was a reporter who made racist jokes and comments about people he was supposed to be covering, and subsequently got fired for it. And then, surprise, no one else wanted to hire him to do reporting. [1] "deserves" is a strong word, but actions have consequences. [1] Until now, I guess?

First of all, what he said wasn't racist. Even if it were, should someone be banned from his profession for life, for one mistake? That is a very cruel punishment.

If we banned people for life for saying dumb things, we would have no politicians, movie stars etc left.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#97

Post by nightski »

richardjordan wrote: post #71
nightski wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this would remove all incentive.

Well you could trust your 'feelings' or you can look at the evidence and determine whether or not Sweden is a prosperous society with a good standard of living, competitive businesses and motivated people.

I visited Sweden for a couple weeks during a school program in high school. My feelings were largely based on my experiences during that trip meeting tons of students and staying with a family there.

Honestly there were tons of drugs, little motivation, and a happy yet seemingly poor society. The mom I stayed with complained endlessly about how her lazy son was throwing his life away.

Maybe I just had a misleading experience. But I just can't say I saw it the same as you do.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#98

Post by HCIdivision17 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #68
w1ntermute wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more people would move away from the super high cost of living areas (California, New England, ...etc) and "vote with their feet" so to speak. This is (and has been) happening for years now. Poorer people are reverse-migrating from the denser parts of the country to the Sun Belt. And it's a problem. The high cost of living in many of the "desirable" parts of the country is artificially created by government…

The crux of your argument is unconvincing. Service jobs have to be near the wealthy? What kind of myopia is that? Un-wealthy people go out to eat and get their car repaired just as much as Richie Rich. Yes, if nobody but tech workers come to San Francisco, the city will collapse. But that doesn't mean everybody else has to live there too. It's also awful presumptuous to say, "Well I'm wealthy, this is where I want to…

It could merely be the people I've known, but I think the un-wealthy actually do spend far less going out to eat and repairing their cars. To whit, I think it's more likely to say I've been duped by Poe's Law.

I mean, one of the defining characteristics of being poor-ish to me is what a person is willing to put up with when driving junk cars. Cars which - when it inevitably gave up the ghost - would be replaced by another junker. Now, I was raised lower middle class, but for a brief period my parents got out of it; the defining turning point was managing to get financing on a new Ford Escort. It wasn't nearly as expensive to own as feared, partly due to incredibly better gas mileage, but also it drank less oil (two quarts every two days, and not a drop on the pavement... Well maybe one or two for good measure.)

Anecdata, to be sure, but I've met quite a few people with similar stories.

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#99

Post by jacalata »

w1ntermute wrote: post #56
mox1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out that this story takes place in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. $10 / hour goes a lot further in Kansas than it does D.C. I think a lot of people could live OK in the Midwest on $10 / hour. I wish more people would move away from the super high cost of living areas (California, New England, ...etc) and "vote with their feet" so to speak. If 10% of the populations of Cali a…

> I wish more people would move away from the super high cost of living areas (California, New England, ...etc) and "vote with their feet" so to speak. This is (and has been) happening for years now. Poorer people are reverse-migrating from the denser parts of the country to the Sun Belt. And it's a problem. The high cost of living in many of the "desirable" parts of the country is artificially created by government…

That's not true actually - migration between states is lower than it used to be and still falling. I can't remember where I first read about this, but here's a random paper on the overall decline of movement [0] and an NYT article specifically about declining migration to the Sun Belt [1].

[0] http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/wp/wp697.pdf [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/us/americans-migration-pat...

Re: My Life as a Retail Worker: Nasty, Brutish, and Cheap

#100

Post by LordIllidan »

morgante wrote: post #43
danso wrote: post #31

I kind of did a double take at this: > Even though I was living rent-free in a guest bedroom, my every-other-Thursday paycheck couldn’t help me climb out of my hole, particularly after the state took half my pre-tax, $300 weekly salary for child support payments. > * got the opportunity to leave Sporting Goods Inc. for a temporary job as a communications director for a Capitol Hill nonprofit, a gig that paid twice as…

I'm not surprised that a journalist managing an 80-person team was paid $200k+. What I am surprised by is how he ever ended up working retail with a salary like that. I'd expect him to have saved up enough to last a year or two of low expenses.

Recent divorce and child support payments
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