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Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

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Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#281

Post by Crake »

david_shaw wrote: post #127
Crake wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any blatant inequality except for the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists, which won't be corrected without pushback from egalitarians.

> the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists I've tried to avoid this inane discussion, but realizing that you're probably misinformed rather than malicious, I thought I'd chime in. Feminism is egalitarianism. Feminism literally means that women should be equal to men. I'm not going to argue with you about so-called "segregationist" policies, because it seems like we'd come to a stand-still.…

Feminism doesn't know what it is. For every feminist who thinks it's about everyone, there's a feminist who thinks it's only about women. All of the legislation? The policies enacted and enforced? Created and aligned to the views of the latter. Feminist laws kept me in an abusive situation as a kid. Maybe if feminists didn't bully, send death threats, and kill the dog of the person who created domestic violence shelters for everyone, or never passed laws based on models saying that only men abuse, I'd have a different opinion.

Actions speak louder than words.

>The only thing I'd like to point out is that we should all be feminists, because the only alternative is sexism.

I have chosen to identify as an egalitarian. Please don't remove my agency. I have very good reasons not to identify with an ideology that cannot even agree on what it is, and has done considerable harm to both myself and many others in the past and present.

I think you can be a feminist and still be a good person. I think it's silly to imply that in order to be a good person, you have to be a feminist.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#282

Post by magicalist »

cheez wrote: post #277
magicalist wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in the world does this have to do with the event or the parent comment? Do people really have no level of self-introspection to the fact that you're the one making the conversation about this? That your immediate response is to this instead of the actual content, and yet you feel compelled to share it with the world? Nobody owes you a conference without the word "female" in the name, or one not featuring female…

Wait, what? The parent was the one who emphasized "female" and associated it with "kvetching". I was more thinking out loud in the first bit, and then agreed with his point. Unbunch your panties, Internet person. I suspect they will give you a heart attack.

No, the top poster was explaining why "female" was in the submission name (it was literally the event's name and a description of the people who were invited to speak), with the hopes that people could focus on the content.

"I'm an ardent supporter of the effort" is in specific reference to the conference, not an invitation for you to play topic-association and share your musings on what male/female ratio is appropriate in the tech industry.

It's irrelevant, but more importantly it's a fucking farce to try to hide behind a professed search for "truth" while turning an exploration of actual female experiences in the tech industry into a discussion of your thoughts on whether or not we should encourage more women to enter the tech industry. Own up to it and move on.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#283

Post by serf »

lkbm wrote: post #119
serf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel exactly the same way, and i'm glad i'm not the only one. If you want to fix scenarios that look segregationist, fix the root cause. Reinforcing one segregation that appears to be a polar opposite of what you have too much of is just as damaging. it's not a tipping scale scenario.

> fix the root cause How? Just tell women to stop feeling marginalized? There are countless subtle ways a all-male (or all-female or all-Christian or all-straight or all-gay or all-white or all-black or all-[insert demographic here) subculture will do things unwittingly that make people not in that demographic uncomfortable. As a member of the majority in almost every respect, I've rarely experienced that, but I'm no…

I haven't dismissed 'patriarchal society' by being offended at an exclusionary conference.

I am simply upset at the idea that people think that large problems that were caused by painting with 'too wide a brush' can be solved by exactly the same methodologies.

If I started a gay male-only developer conference, people would freak. If I started a female to male transsexual only conference, people would freak. If I started a socialist dog-only developer conference , people would freak.

It's not that people are against a certain ethos or political movement. That's not why they are upset. People get upset at exclusion, and by creating these specialist conferences, we do nothing but further an exclusionary rift that we already know exists.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#284

Post by wpietri »

cheez wrote: post #278
wpietri wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who hire, do you pay women developers less than male developers of the same skill level? Skill level perception is influenced by gender, even for experts. [1] [2] Unless hiring managers are blinding the process by which they determine skill and/or pay, then they could well be paying women less even if they think they aren't. [1] http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full [2] http://www.nber.org/papers/…

So the research you linked was about a science department and symphony orchestras which can be comparable. I can totally see discrimination happening there. I'd say the major comparable characteristic is elitism and status there, which I do not see as relevant in tech hiring. Perhaps at Google and Microsoft, since a job there = status. Otherwise in tech, it's just so foreign to me. I take the time to try and learn ab…

I think asking for that is not likely to go well.

I've talked to plenty of women who have experienced discrimination. But I doubt any of them would post here.

Why? Well, look at your criteria. They have to "prove" themselves competent. And then they have to "demonstrate" discrimination. You've set yourself up as some anonymous internet judge of their qualifications. And of whether their discrimination is real enough. And who's the audience? A bunch of mostly-anonymous mostly-privileged mostly-dudes on a site where there is plenty of previous sexism. Gosh, sounds fun.

It is exactly nobody's job to prove this stuff to you. Sexual discrimination is pervasive in our society. No need to take my word for it; go read Everyday Sexism or Project Unbreakable. Or the many, many women publishing on this, both in tech and elsewhere. And if you'd like to question your own biases, go take the tests at Project Implicit and see how you do.

If you'd like to believe with no hard evidence that tech is the one special, magical place that is different, I'm not doing to try to talk you out of it. But if you're serious about preparing your daughter to work in tech, and preparing tech for your daughter, then I think you should question the assumption that, as we undo the effects of millennia of societal gender discrimination, the space around you just happens to be the one that has totally cleared that.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#285

Post by cheez »

magicalist wrote: post #282
cheez wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? The parent was the one who emphasized "female" and associated it with "kvetching". I was more thinking out loud in the first bit, and then agreed with his point. Unbunch your panties, Internet person. I suspect they will give you a heart attack.

No, the top poster was explaining why "female" was in the submission name (it was literally the event's name and a description of the people who were invited to speak), with the hopes that people could focus on the content. "I'm an ardent supporter of the effort" is in specific reference to the conference, not an invitation for you to play topic-association and share your musings on what male/female ratio is appropri…

In thinking over the topic a bit more, as well as reading more on it, I think I've come to a more nuanced understanding about it all. It's not that people want a 50/50 split, it's that they want more women who want to be in tech, to be in tech.

I always thought it was that they wanted a 50/50 split which never made sense to me. After reading the recaps of the female attendees, it hit me.

Carry on.

As for the on-topicness of the initial post, guilty. I had just read the "no gender pay gap in software" and so my mind was in that mode.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#286

Post by cheez »

wpietri wrote: post #284
cheez wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the research you linked was about a science department and symphony orchestras which can be comparable. I can totally see discrimination happening there. I'd say the major comparable characteristic is elitism and status there, which I do not see as relevant in tech hiring. Perhaps at Google and Microsoft, since a job there = status. Otherwise in tech, it's just so foreign to me. I take the time to try and learn ab…

I think asking for that is not likely to go well. I've talked to plenty of women who have experienced discrimination. But I doubt any of them would post here. Why? Well, look at your criteria. They have to "prove" themselves competent. And then they have to "demonstrate" discrimination. You've set yourself up as some anonymous internet judge of their qualifications. And of whether their discrimination is real enough.…

> as we undo the effects of millennia of societal gender discrimination

Can you talk about this every day discrimination some more?

History definitely shows women as being subjugated to men. But how is it possible then that a woman philosopher was so sought after both for her intelligence as well as her charm? How did Cleopatra come to be such an iconic figure in history? Clearly some women were able to make their marks on history.

Perhaps women were "subjugated" because technology didn't allow the literally weaker sex to leave the household as it does now. Having kids must have meant that one of the parents had to choose to care for the home since technology did not allow the household efficiency that it does now.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#287

Post by wpietri »

cheez wrote: post #286
wpietri wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think asking for that is not likely to go well. I've talked to plenty of women who have experienced discrimination. But I doubt any of them would post here. Why? Well, look at your criteria. They have to "prove" themselves competent. And then they have to "demonstrate" discrimination. You've set yourself up as some anonymous internet judge of their qualifications. And of whether their discrimination is real enough.…

> as we undo the effects of millennia of societal gender discrimination Can you talk about this every day discrimination some more? History definitely shows women as being subjugated to men. But how is it possible then that a woman philosopher was so sought after both for her intelligence as well as her charm? How did Cleopatra come to be such an iconic figure in history? Clearly some women were able to make their ma…

You have ignored the meat of my comments and picked a small chunk to seize upon, which is generally a bad sign for dialog. So, directly addressing your point:

http://everydaysexism.com/

http://projectunbreakable.tumblr.com/

Also, read the biography of any pioneering female in any profession at all.

And consider educating yourself a little further before floating hypotheticals. If I say, "Perhaps Microsoft dominated for so long just because they made a really awesome product that everybody loved," or "perhaps the intelligence agencies are really only collecting the data they need to keep us safe", people here on Hacker News would mock me for not having done the slightest homework. Yes, those are reasonable questions to ask. But they aren't good ones to offer in the middle of a serious discussion. At best, it forces other people to spoon-feed you basic facts if they want useful dialog. At worst, it makes you look like a troll.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#288

Post by erichocean »

br78 wrote: post #255
erichocean wrote: post #166

My wife applied and I was surprised by the unseriousness of the application process. If you've gone through the online YC application process, imagine you dumbed that down for a 10 year old who only had 10 minutes to complete it and only had to answer one question, along the lines of "Why is America the best country on Earth?"[0] Here's the rejection email my wife got for those that are curious: Thank you for applyin…

I thought it was from Newsroom but someone else said "film"

It's from Thank You for Smoking.
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