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'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

theguardian.com

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Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#21

Post by Dewie »

yetanotherphd wrote: post #12
TheBiv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not quite sure of your definition of 'somewhat' however giving a mild amount of justification for treating others wrongly simply bc they don't confirm to your standards of 'correctness' is not justifiable.

I meant they are somewhat correct in their belief that bullying is a part of our social fabric. But I don't endorse bullying, rather I think that there is something wrong with our society. It is not an uncommon (again, I don't endorse this viewpoint) for people to say that bullying is a normal part of growing up, and that it helps strengthen people's character, etc. I don't think people who say this are being 100% ho…

> I meant they are somewhat correct in their belief that bullying is a part of our social fabric. But I don't endorse bullying, rather I think that there is something wrong with our society.

Of course it's part of the social fabric of wherever it happens and goes unpunished. This seems like saying "this is a thing that happens", which feels like a truism.

Like you're saying, it isn't something that should be encouraged or that should go unpunished. If there is something beneficial about it, then that is probably just a symptom of something else that is wrong with society, which forces/enables the bullying.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#22

Post by UK-AL »

DanBC wrote: post #18
UK-AL wrote: post #11

The problem with this, is that when he enters the workforce a lot of that social awkwardness and bulling problems could come back again. So it's a short lived victory. In the UK outside of silicon roundabout and a few good companies, programmers are low rung employees and often pushed around and managed by the same sort of people who bullied him school. He won't have any authority to hit back, and if he tried probabl…

English companies have a legal duty to protect staff from harm. This includes bullying in the workplace. Any company that fires a victim of bullying leaves themselves open to compensation claims. Any company that does nothing likewise leaves themselves open to legal action.

The hard part is proving it(Bullying is subtle). The next hard part is stumping up the courage to take legal action.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#23

Post by DanBC »

UK-AL wrote: post #22
DanBC wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English companies have a legal duty to protect staff from harm. This includes bullying in the workplace. Any company that fires a victim of bullying leaves themselves open to compensation claims. Any company that does nothing likewise leaves themselves open to legal action.

The hard part is proving it(Bullying is subtle). The next hard part is stumping up the courage to take legal action.

The person being bullied keeps a log of what happens.

They then go to HR (or whatever the proceedure is -and companies need to have a proceedure) to talk about it. They present a copy of their ongoing log and ask for help. If the person has seen a doctor they can ask that doctor to write a supporting letter.

Being a member of a union is helpful here because they will help.

Taking legal action is an absolute last resort!

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#24

Post by UK-AL »

motters wrote: post #19
UK-AL wrote: post #11

The problem with this, is that when he enters the workforce a lot of that social awkwardness and bulling problems could come back again. So it's a short lived victory. In the UK outside of silicon roundabout and a few good companies, programmers are low rung employees and often pushed around and managed by the same sort of people who bullied him school. He won't have any authority to hit back, and if he tried probabl…

Having been a programmer in tech companies in the UK for a long time I agree about the low status, but I've only rarely encountered bad behavior by managers (mistakes and bad decisions, yes. Bullying not so much). My experience is that in this sort of job the pay is at least liveable and the working conditions are typically good. This is however entirely anecdotal and it's quite possible that I just got lucky and am…

But it depends on the type person you are. If you have aspergers its very easy to become a victim of bullying.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#25

Post by UK-AL »

DanBC wrote: post #23
UK-AL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part is proving it(Bullying is subtle). The next hard part is stumping up the courage to take legal action.

The person being bullied keeps a log of what happens. They then go to HR (or whatever the proceedure is -and companies need to have a proceedure) to talk about it. They present a copy of their ongoing log and ask for help. If the person has seen a doctor they can ask that doctor to write a supporting letter. Being a member of a union is helpful here because they will help. Taking legal action is an absolute last reso…

Most technology companies in the UK are small(1-20). They don't have HR, and don't really have 'grievance procedures' even though they should. So often bullying is straight from the owners/directors.

If you went to a small digital agency, and said you wished file a grievance you would be laughed at.

Programmers aren't unionised.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#26

Post by jpgvm »

This rings very true of my life.

I had a horrible experience in school. I was bullied at every school I went to, I had to attend boarding school for 4 years because my life would have been a dead end otherwise. Boarding school was akin to hell but I endured the 24/7 bullying so that I could slug out an education for myself. I was eventually expelled from boarding school for hacking, which in retrospect was one of the best things that happened to me.

The emotional scars of that experience left me vulnerable, I barely made it to university - had to travel 1100km from my home to attend, tried to support myself while doing university full time. I lost my job because I was falling into depression because my girlfriend at the time was drifting away from me. She eventually left me and I was all alone. Broke, homeless and too proud to go home.

I managed to salvage some odd jobs on freelancer/elance started to climb out of the emotional rut. Doing freelance work using university wifi while homeless and using uni showers really is an experience. I got determined to not to live like that so I put aside my pride, moved in with family and got stuck into honing my skills as a programmer, doing freelance work and going back to university.

Programming brought back my pride, it re-established my self esteem, I ended up having the confidence to start my own company, which fast forward 3 years or so is still running and is a multi-million dollar company. I have since moved on, am now internationally traveled and I now make in excess of 150k/yr.

Looking back on my short life a few things ring very true. Often alot of the worst things to happen to me have also been the best things. If I wasn't so downtrodden I wouldn't be so strong now, if my girlfriend didn't leave me the way she did I never would have been so determined to prove her wrong.

So no matter how bad things seem, remember that there is always time to make things better.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#27

Post by bananas »

The difference between then (believe me I was there) and now is that the teachers get stick for allowing this to happen instantly. I've personally got into several shouting matches with teachers over how they treat my children and deal with these situations. I'm usually in a queue of other parents doing exactly the same.

People don't take any shit these days.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#28

Post by mattgreenrocks »

gargarplex wrote: post #8

Is it sad that I saw this post and immediately thought, "Well, that doesn't reflect well on programmers..", thinking that our status as a group is already quite low. * Speaking as someone who has experienced quite a fair share of bullying, such that it makes me trepidatious in most social situations, waiting and ever expecting the first arrow. ^ probably a self-fulfilling prophecy, which turns it into "my fault". if…

One word: therapy.

It's your baggage. Either you own up to it and continually work on it, or you let it fester and run your life. I meet so many people who are terrified of being the type of person that goes to therapy despite significant issues. And it's sad, that's pride and potentially narcissism running your life.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#29

Post by bananas »

motters wrote: post #19
UK-AL wrote: post #11

The problem with this, is that when he enters the workforce a lot of that social awkwardness and bulling problems could come back again. So it's a short lived victory. In the UK outside of silicon roundabout and a few good companies, programmers are low rung employees and often pushed around and managed by the same sort of people who bullied him school. He won't have any authority to hit back, and if he tried probabl…

Having been a programmer in tech companies in the UK for a long time I agree about the low status, but I've only rarely encountered bad behavior by managers (mistakes and bad decisions, yes. Bullying not so much). My experience is that in this sort of job the pay is at least liveable and the working conditions are typically good. This is however entirely anecdotal and it's quite possible that I just got lucky and am…

Bullying is rife in the UK tech industry. If you put up a wall people will respect it and keep away but if you don't, it's open season. There's also a nasty class divide between permanent and contract staff. I'm the latter and much resentment is felt even though the former could be the latter with a little effort and reap the benefits.

Re: 'I was bullied and beaten every day. Programming saved my life'

#30

Post by mattgreenrocks »

Been there, had it nowhere near as bad as Dan did.

Institutions don't look out for you. They only look out for themselves. My future children will be taught to stand up for themselves, and enrolled in martial arts if necessary. Additionally, I have no qualms about creatively getting the attention of oblivious institutions that tacitly endorse this abuse.

On second thought, maybe I should just homeschool until high school.

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