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Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

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Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#61
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you explain it then? It's good enough for a BuzzFeed writer to get it reinstated, but not good enough to at least verify that it's a real name?

I will explain it. Google wants personal identity attached to posts on Google+ people Google thinks that people will value what they say when they are not posting anonymously. Some engineer wrote a thing to try to catch obviously fake names, and some kinds of real names, which actually are attached to real identity, get caught in the filter. They didn't target specific groups of people because they hate them ffs. I a…

It sounds like your understanding of racism is not very nuanced. Explicit statements of racial hatred are the most obvious kind of racism. But that's not where it ends.

For example, consider the study "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?" [1] They found that resumes with black-sounding names were less employable than the same resumes with white-sounding names. Is that because a large number of hiring managers are also KKK members who put on their hoods before sorting applications? Probably not.

A more likely explanation is that, as Harvard's Project Implicit [2] demonstrates, a lot of people are consciously anti-racist but still have racist attitudes and reactions. If you live in a segregated society, it need not even be a bias against blacks, so much as a bias for people who are more familiar to you. Is that effectively racism? If I were somebody not getting hired because of the color of my skin, I'd sure think so.

So in the case of Google Plus, I doubt the mainly white, mainly male, mainly millionaires sitting in a suburban office park were consciously saying, "At last, our revenge for Custer!" But them saying, "Looks good to us!" and then enforcing it is effectively saying, "We believe our personal biases and local cultural norms are good enough for the entire world." That might not be explicitly racist in intention. But I don't think that's required to create a racist system.

[1] http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 [2] https://www.projectimplicit.net/index.html

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#62
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will explain it. Google wants personal identity attached to posts on Google+ people Google thinks that people will value what they say when they are not posting anonymously. Some engineer wrote a thing to try to catch obviously fake names, and some kinds of real names, which actually are attached to real identity, get caught in the filter. They didn't target specific groups of people because they hate them ffs. I a…

> calling things which are not really racism racism only dilutes actual racism and victims of racism. I don't know your racial category, but people of color frequently mention how white people aggressively like to redefine racism so it doesn't include their own racism. This particular argument is common among them. Because after all, racism is one of those -isms which are a fundamental part of many cultures (like the…

> I don't know your racial category, but people of color frequently mention how white people aggressively like to redefine racism so it doesn't include their own racism.

And white people do the same thing about people of color, pointing to the not-infrequently-made redefinition of racism that anyone who isn't in the currently-dominant race cannot, ipso facto, be "racist" [1].

The fact that people of all races can point to self-serving and ridiculous attempts from people of other races to redefine their own racism as "not racism" does not, however, make the very idea that the term must have some boundaries to be useful invalid.

[1] for an example of this argument see, e.g., http://wwsword.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-black-people-cant-be...

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#63
post #3

"Discriminate" because this was obviously intentional prejudicial racism! Of course it's not malicious. This guy is not good people.

Accidental discrimination is still discrimination, absence of malicious intent doesn't eliminate negative consequences.

Also, continuation of accidental discrimination after being made aware of it becomes purposeful discrimination. If google doesn't fix it they can't use the "oops, we didn't know" defense for much longer.

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#64
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's satire. 12. People’s names are case sensitive. 13. People’s names are case insensitive. Edit: Let me explain ... I was responding to the parent post, and that it wasn't meant to be a logic list of rules. Individual points may be true, but the overall tone of the list and post uses humor to explain the complexity of names. 32. People’s names are assigned at birth. 33. OK, maybe not at birth, but at least pretty c…

Case sensitive and case insensitive sound like they're the only two options, but they're not. Take SQL as an example: are programs case-sensitive or case-insensitive? Neither!

I just got bit by inconsistent case sensitivity. My tool inspects SQL schemas. I switched from hand-rolled queries, which weren't portable, to using JDBC MetaData methods. Mostly worked. Until I did a live demo. Oops. Now have a hybrid solution.

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#67
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I for one find it slightly annoying that people use the term _discrimination_ so lightly, even though its quite possible that the reason behind this issue is incompetence.

There was nothing light about how I used it. Even if this was not done intentionally, it still discriminated against her. Sort of like how gender fields with only a Male/Female option unintentionally discriminate against transgender people. Nothing intentional, but still happens - and still discrimination.

Since Facebook has now fixed this bug in their UI/database, safe to say it is intentional elsewhere. At least in the sense that "supporting gender fluid users is lower priority than adding more whizzy animations to the UI".

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#68
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I for one find it slightly annoying that people use the term _discrimination_ so lightly, even though its quite possible that the reason behind this issue is incompetence.

you can "indirectly discriminate" if you implement polices that effect a larger proportionate of a particular group. It's why stop and search that targets a large number of young black men is seen as racist. It might be incompetence the first time but this has been going on for such a long time now that that is wearing a bit thin as an excuse.

This called "disparate impact" in US law. Quite a controversial issue, and only getting worse ad.machine learning algorithms grow in power and influence.

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#69
post #4

> Google, pick up your act. It's getting really old. Frankly, the fact that Elaine Yellow Horse appealed your policy three times and it was only once the media got involved that you did the right thing shows that your staff are either incompetent, or racist. ... My guess is neither. They're probably very smart people, and they may just arrogantly assume that their specification of their algorithms are correct, are co…

same reasons why the FBI watch list and the CIA terrorist list is a farce..Why in certain cultures its common to change one's name to honor someone else,etc..For example, J Stain is not his real birth name...wqnt another example?

Adolf Hitler is not his real birth name..even than me Hitler is somewhat a non-existent name as its not spelled that way in German anyway.

People's names are imprecise due to the language and cultures underlying that naming.

Re: Google+ names policy discriminates against American Native Indians

#70
post #17

I hope that OP isn't seriously suggesting that “discrimination” was a factor, it’s too serious an accusation to be thrown around so carelessly. There are enough past incidents of “unusual” names being erroneously flagged to suggest it's no about irrational human discrimination but about imperfect mostly automated processes. The policy is about using “real names”, the automated system was obviously tripped and the app…

"Name calling" is exactly what Google needs more of...
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