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Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

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Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#61

Post by evacuationdrill »

guelo wrote: post #56
jccooper wrote: post #37

It's not quite so big as the headline, but it's still good. Here's the scoop: The FAA has long had rules for model aircraft, which would include many small "drones", and under which you can personally operate them now. You're supposed to stay low and away from stuff you could damage. They also (as of fairly recently) have some rules for UAS (unmanned aerial systems) that are more like the rules for real aircraft, and…

What's the difference between model aircraft and UAS? Is it line of sight flying?

It seems like you still have to have a chase plane[1], and the difference seems to be requiring approval for UAS as a whole system to use for commercial purposes[2]. Note in that second link that there is no size restriction for model airplanes, which I found interesting ("FAA guidance does not address size of the model aircraft.").

[1] http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=14... "Because UAS technology cannot currently comply with “see and avoid” rules that apply to all aircraft, a visual observer or an accompanying “chase plane” must maintain visual contact with the UAS and serve as its “eyes” when operating outside airspace restricted from other users." [2]http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/uas_faq/#Qn1

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#62

Post by logfromblammo »

I am not a pilot. But I imagine that there should be not problems flying a piloted unmanned aircraft in uncontrolled airspace--which is, I believe, usually under 1200' AGL. If you're operating remotely without a camera, you keep the craft within line of sight, and double the visibility distance for a manned aircraft. Otherwise, you operate by IFR using whatever telemetry you get back.

With a drone, however, I'd think that operating in controlled airspace would require extensive collision avoidance and fault recovery software, which would have to be tested and certified by experienced pilots.

There is a difference between drones and remotely piloted aircraft, and I certainly hope that the journalists can learn it before we end up with another "hacker" situation.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#63

Post by jccooper »

mbreese wrote: post #59
akozak wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, you still technically need "line of sight" to the drone.

Somewhere I think I saw something about requiring the ability to take manual control too, which would require line of sight. Maybe I'm thinking of AMA requirements though... (think model airplanes, not doctors - although, doctors also require line of sight)

I thought I saw those too, but haven't been able to find them in the FAA notices for model aircraft. There is such a clause in the 2012 for small unmanned aircraft (sUAS) use by a "government public safety agency".

I would presume the FAA will try to apply such a rule to civil use after this ruling.

Edit: Federal Register Notice 14 CFR Part 91 says they "expect line of sight" for model aircraft. It does not seem to be required--and at least one administrative judge thinks that such a notice does not carry much weight.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#64

Post by ChikkaChiChi »

smtddr wrote: post #5

Huh, so if Amazon really wants to start sending out those drones they no longer have any legal hurdles? I expect to hear stories of college kids capturing them before EOY.

There are many more hurdles that realistically keep Amazon from doing what they said.

Multi-tenant housing, people running under landing drones wanting to hit the 'Sue Amazon' lottery, and airspace ownership above private property are just a few of the gigantic hurdles that will take years to sort out.

Not to mention the power consumption issue still limits this idea tremendously.

At this point, it's just as realistic that Amazon would implement pneumatic tubing to your house as it is that a drone will deliver your soap.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#65

Post by gnaffle »

SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #31

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

I'm pretty sure that as UAVs increase in capabilities and come down in price, there will be regulations that force them to carry alerting / avoidance systems (like FLARM or similar) and light aircraft will have to carry them, too.

Just like in many countries, restrictions on the sale of high power laser pointers are in effect and vastly limit the amount of people that have easy access to them, and therefore the risk of someone doing something stupid.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#66

Post by skue »

This appears to be the video that upset the FAA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZnJeuAja-4#t=17

And here is the complaint the FAA originally filed, which includes flying through crowded streets, flying through a tunnel with traffic, flying as high as 1500ft AGL, flying at an individual causing them to jump aside [apparently moments before crashing into a hedge], and flying within 100ft of the UVA Medical Center's heliport [though the video was being filmed for UVA].

http://www.suasnews.com/2013/10/25471/the-faas-complaint-aga...

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#67

Post by toomuchtodo »

001sky wrote: post #60
guelo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between model aircraft and UAS? Is it line of sight flying?

Looks pretty grey "There are already hobbyists that operate "drones" by any reasonable definition. The term in the hobby is "FPV" (First Person View) - you install a camera and a transmitter on your aircraft and pilot it from a first-person perspective using a monitor on the ground. The radios on these operate by line-of-sight, but the range is far beyond visual range. You can find plenty of videos on Youtube just se…

I'm interested in controlled drones not by radio control, but with waypoints, and telemetry provided over LTE. Further investigation required!

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#68

Post by gnaffle »

cjensen wrote: post #33
SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #31

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

Remote-controlled model airplane have long existed at those altitudes. How do you cope with them?

It's all about how widespread they are. What was before a pretty limited hobby where most people would know about and be mindful of light aircraft (and sometimes share airstrips with them), might turn into a real problem when prices come down and anyone can operate them without much training, as modern drones can with gyro and GPS stabilization.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#69

Post by toomuchtodo »

cryptoz wrote: post #43
jccooper wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're collecting your data under 400 feet, this ruling isn't going to enable such a system. Only "model aircraft" operation is involved.

Actually I'm exclusively interested in data under 400 feet! Surface-level pressure observations are my target; recent research suggests that a dense network of atmospheric pressure observations (taken on the surface) will produce a significantly higher accuracy forecast. Smartphones work nicely for this except for their lack of even geographical distribution.

Get in touch . I'm working on making a low cost sensor box from Raspberry Pi's for wide dissemination; atmospheric/temp sensors, precision GPS receiver, software defined radio for grabbing AIS and ADS-B data, etc, and then open sourcing all of the collected data sets and the live streams.

I would love to integrate with Cumulonimbus! My email address is in my profile.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#70

Post by MiguelHudnandez »

Crito wrote: post #57
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and college students have no historical record of law breaking or vandalism in the name of entertainment whatsoever.

Well society hasn't crumbled due to college students wrecking everything yet, so we must have figured out a way to deal with the drunk idiots. Perhaps some variation on the "If they break the law, arrest them for it." technique is being employed...

Plus, colleges need a way to trim the fat, so to speak. To eliminate groups of people that would attempt to steal a machine with a live network connection, GPS, several cameras, and surrounded by rapidly spinning blades.

I say that jokingly, but this happened in Iran to a plane operated by the US military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incide...

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