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Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

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Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#31
So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL?

Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident between a manned aircraft and model aircraft. Also the nature of radio control has necessitated that the model aircraft generally be withing sight range of the operator, and as such the operator is still able to avoid other aircraft to some extent. This may not be the case for automated drones.

2) Regarding 400 ft AGL. How do I know that the drone operator won't accidentally end up at 600ft+ AGL (for example), which happens to be at the low end of a standard traffic pattern altitude (800ft)? As far as I know there's no way to know what altitude your drone is above the ground except possibly GPS which does not always give you an accurate MSL (or AGL) altitude. Will all drone operators in populated areas be made aware of local air traffic patterns? What if I want to exercise my privilege to operate below 500 ft. AGL in unpopulated areas? I can think of a lot of cases where I've been below 400ft AGL during takeoff and landing while over densely populated areas.

My perception is that automated drones with no mechanism to avoid manned aircraft at or near traffic pattern altitude at densely populated locations is a big problem.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#32

Not really. It just means the FAA has to come up with rules just like for any other flying planes. No one wants drones flying into protected airspace, crashing into things, etc. It's not a sudden free for all. They just can't refuse to come up with rules because it's a drone. The rules could still be hard to meet.

Can the rules be "they can't fly", or something so prohibitive that it makes it so?

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#33

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

Remote-controlled model airplane have long existed at those altitudes. How do you cope with them?

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#34

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

This is where tactical regulations need created and applied. The ultralight world operates in loose regulations and has generally worked well with the airspace system - basically keeping them out of controlled airspace, and having them operate as other aircraft in non-controlled environments. As a pilot, you know you won't be at 400ft AGL at all except landing, or crop dusting, or buzzing open areas of uninhabited land. And, you know that there is no control of that airspace and anything could be flying in it today, sans drone movement.

RC aircraft have had 'recommended regulations' [1] since 1981 [2], and I am struggling to remember the last time I heard of an RC vs piloted plane incident (yes, sure, we pilots see them near the airport but they mind themselves under pattern altitude, and don't buzz the real runways). Those regulations are seemingly benign to the community's enjoyment.

I can see having UAV operators such as photog or surveillance operate under a similar set of guidelines as a protection to the people. I have a drone and a real airplane - I would not appreciate my calm day at the park being threatened with a drone buzzing at 15 feet, nor a real plane.

[1] "Outlines, and encourages voluntary compliance with, safety standards for model aircraft operators."

[2] http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/9...

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#35

So as a pilot of a manned aircraft what does this mean for the safety of my flights? Do I need to start trying to avoid unlicensed, unlit, and unannounced drone aircraft whenever I'm below 400ft AGL? Edit: Thanks to everyone below for your thoughtful comments. My replies are as follows: 1) Regarding model aircraft - I would argue that the low density of these operations at the moment is what has prevented an incident…

According to FAR 91.119 you already should be above 500 feet AGL unless you're taking off, landing, or above very sparsely populated areas. I'm assuming fixed wing aircraft, so if you're a helicopter pilot the rules are slightly different.

Either way, I don't see this as a huge problem.

[1] http://rgl.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_library/rgfar.nsf...

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#36
post #30

I have yet to see a practical solution that provides separation between UAV and manned aircraft. All flights under VFR are responsible for their own separation by way of see-and-be-seen. I have yet to see a UAV that can visually recognize an approaching aircraft and take evasive action.

Perhaps do the separation by height above the ground? In most of the world light aircraft are not supposed to fly below 500ft apart from landing. You could limit drones to flying below 200ft say. It would also reduce the impact when they pack up and crash on you!

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#37
It's not quite so big as the headline, but it's still good. Here's the scoop:

The FAA has long had rules for model aircraft, which would include many small "drones", and under which you can personally operate them now. You're supposed to stay low and away from stuff you could damage.

They also (as of fairly recently) have some rules for UAS (unmanned aerial systems) that are more like the rules for real aircraft, and are working on integrating them into real airspace. Thus a UAS requires a certificate and permission to fly--but they're still working on how to do that, so you can't get one yet. If you were to buy your own Predator you couldn't fly it, 'cause it might run into an airliner. Fair enough.

However, they also declared that commercial use of an otherwise-model aircraft turned it into a full UAS, which you currently cannot fly. So you could use a quadrotor to take aerial photos--but you could not get paid for it.

This ruling, in a nice display of common sense, disposes of this last bit, making operation of "model aircraft" the same regardless of intent. You still have to fly safely, and in limited space, but now you can get paid for quadrotor photography, as the FAA no longer has a basis to fine you. You still cannot fly that Predator, though. Sorry.

But I'd be careful before making too much investment based on this decision. At the very least, check into how the appeals process on a ruling like this works; dunno how final it is. You'll also want to check carefully to make sure your intended use can be performed safely by model aircraft; fully unmanned systems probably aren't going to pass muster (unless perhaps your automated avoidance system is really good).

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#38
I hope when automated delivery is a reality, those of us who live on high floors of apartment buildings can affix some machine identifiable sticker to the outside of our chosen delivery window.

When that happens, I will know I'm living in the future.

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#39
post #6

Okay, time to build drones full of atmosphere sensors! The weather forecast is about to get a lot better....this is excellent news for crowdsourcing remote data about the atmosphere. I've been pulling pressure measurements from smartphones for a while, but a core problem is that a lot of weather develops over areas of low smartphone density. Sending out drone fleets will be a most excellent solution; they're reusable…

Wouldn't balloons be better for atmospheric pressure sensors?

Re: Model aircraft operators free to operate commercially in US, rules federal judge

#40
post #32

Not really. It just means the FAA has to come up with rules just like for any other flying planes. No one wants drones flying into protected airspace, crashing into things, etc. It's not a sudden free for all. They just can't refuse to come up with rules because it's a drone. The rules could still be hard to meet.

Can the rules be "they can't fly", or something so prohibitive that it makes it so?

Sure. But then all sorts of things will be banned: footballs, baseballs, kites, model rockets, frisbees, conventional model aircraft, weather balloons, etc etc. The better way to do it is with common sense safety standards, certifications and clear rules on airspace.
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