At Odds: Hackers at Harvard • Hacker News Board

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#11

Post by asolove » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:23 AM UTC

ajaymehta wrote: post #3

Schools like Harvard should have a major (or at least a concentration) in Web Development. Without that, they're missing out on setting up thousands of students for success.

"Setting up thousands of students for success" is not the goal of a university. If it were, they should also offer majors in underwater welding, computer-aided machining, and other currently-understaffed specialist roles where a person with only one or two years' experience can earn good money.

It's worth remembering that "web startup engineer" is to Computer Science what those vocations are to Physics. It is a craft, not a discipline and best learned through experience rather than theory.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#12

Post by joelgrus » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:27 AM UTC

Expecting Harvard to teach you how to be a hacker is about as far from the hacker mindset as you can get.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#13

Post by Perdition » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:27 AM UTC

billyjobob wrote: post #10

I have delved into the theoretical side of computer science, learning about lower-level languages such as C, experiencing faint tastes of web programming, and more recently, an introduction to the beauty of recursion in functional programming languages like OCaml... but I know I haven’t experienced that “hacker” oriented style of programming that I was hoping for through Harvard. You keep using that word, I do not th…

Exactly my thought. People don't get taught to be hackers (at least not by schools), they either have the desire and aptitude to go beyond school work or they don't.

Places like Harvard and MIT produce hackers because of the students they attract, not because they teach "hacker oriented programming".

Zuckerberg didn't study "Social media websites 101" he hacked together a project in his spare time.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#14

Post by supersystem » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:31 AM UTC

Please upvote when you comment if you find the post interesting, otherwise it will get "controversy banned".

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#15

Post by deskglass » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:33 AM UTC

asolove wrote: post #11

ajaymehta wrote: post #3

Schools like Harvard should have a major (or at least a concentration) in Web Development. Without that, they're missing out on setting up thousands of students for success.

"Setting up thousands of students for success" is not the goal of a university. If it were, they should also offer majors in underwater welding, computer-aided machining, and other currently-understaffed specialist roles where a person with only one or two years' experience can earn good money. It's worth remembering that "web startup engineer" is to Computer Science what those vocations are to Physics. It is a craft…

I think they were being sarcastic.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#16

Post by egl2000 » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:34 AM UTC

If what you want is "intensive courses on Ruby on Rails, Node.js, Objective-C, HTML/CSS and JavaScript", save yourself four years and save your folks $200K. Drop out and get a public library card.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#17

Post by Perdition » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:38 AM UTC

asolove wrote: post #11

ajaymehta wrote: post #3

Schools like Harvard should have a major (or at least a concentration) in Web Development. Without that, they're missing out on setting up thousands of students for success.

"Setting up thousands of students for success" is not the goal of a university. If it were, they should also offer majors in underwater welding, computer-aided machining, and other currently-understaffed specialist roles where a person with only one or two years' experience can earn good money. It's worth remembering that "web startup engineer" is to Computer Science what those vocations are to Physics. It is a craft…

Exactly. I think there is a place for applied courses at the tertiary level, but that isn't the role of top-tier research universities.

And I am not being snooty, I only have a diploma from a vocational college (I studied CS a long time ago but dropped out).

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#18

Post by sayangel » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 2:41 AM UTC

As an undergrad I found myself thinking similarly. Looking back, I definitely think I rushed some things and agree with most people in this thread. The stuff you described won't and shouldn't be taught in schools. You're there to engage in thoughtful discourse that will help you come up with better solutions to the worlds problems. Node, RoR, etc. are just tools to make those ideas come to life. You can be a code monkey, but that doesn't make you a good software engineer. Find the right balance and I think you'll find the quality of your hacks will improve as well.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#19

Post by evangastman » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 5:44 AM UTC

billyjobob wrote: post #10

I have delved into the theoretical side of computer science, learning about lower-level languages such as C, experiencing faint tastes of web programming, and more recently, an introduction to the beauty of recursion in functional programming languages like OCaml... but I know I haven’t experienced that “hacker” oriented style of programming that I was hoping for through Harvard. You keep using that word, I do not th…

I'd like to clarify some things that are not clear in the post. I am finding a lot of value in the CS courses I am taking in their rigor and the way they are changing how I think about problems. I also feel like I am in the company of some incredibly smart, talented, and driven people. I feel awfully fortunate to be in the position I am in. This all said, I also think that being able to build hackable and scalable projects is really powerful, and that the education I want meshes these areas together- instruction directed towards the theory as well as with the projects.

Re: At Odds: Hackers at Harvard

#20

Post by evangastman » Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 5:47 AM UTC

hmpc wrote: post #2

>I don’t buy that as an excuse for why there aren’t any intensive courses on Ruby on Rails, Node.js, Objective-C, HTML/CSS and JavaScript. For the same reason why there aren't any intensive courses on Windows, ASP, or GNOME. Because technologies come and go --- nowhere more so than in software --- and those left standing are the ones who grasped the fundamentals of their field, not the ones who blitzed their way thro…

I appreciate this response a lot, especially the last sentence. My takeaway from it: Search out those things that you can't find on the Internet. Believe it or not, that sentiment really does offer a new way of thinking about things.