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Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

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Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#51
I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment.

It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echonest was that they DIDN'T sell to punters. And now, they've been bought in a deal paid for (assumption on my part) with made up value, based on an exit some time soon. It's basically a huge signal that Spotify is preparing for an IPO, which will help the major labels (considerable stock holders - and stake holders) realise a return on their early 'in-faith' investment in Spotify - which has been massively rewarded by unbelievable ($100m+) catalogue advances and equity. Streaming doesn't make money. It will - one day - but right now, there is no certainty that Spotify will come out on top, or even as a player in this space in five years, ten years, whatever.

The whole streaming thing has been the biggest wholesale transfer of capital from investors to labels that the music industry has ever seen. Spotify is now "too big to fail". The advances the labels have taken, and the equity they have been given means that it is near impossible for them to let the streaming model of doing business fail. Even if it's currently cannibalistic of their other revenue, and even if there's a huge PR backlash from artists who don't understand that consumption models have changed. The Majors have been given enough actual cash that they can afford to stick it out.

The Echonest is one of the most exciting companies - if not THE most exciting company - in the music space today. They've taken approaching $30m of funding, and I have no idea what Spotify had to pay for a company who are presumably fighting off acquisition on a day by day basis from people who want to become players in the music industry. There are about ten buyers I can imagine would have wanted to beat the highest bidder.

Beats bought Topspin yesterday. A completely pointless acquisition, based, presumably, on Ian Rodgers' history with that company. Today, Spotify announce their acquisition of The Echonest. Neither company has ANYTHING exciting - on a day to day basis - to report (woo! new interface! woo! more shit headphones! woo! an artist partnership! which our competitors announce tomorrow! woo!) - and apart from the lacklustre launch of Beats earlier in the year, no one in that space has had anything exciting to report in ages.

Streaming music is BORING. It's now pretty much just a commodity service, and it's becoming a very dull market, where the major players have nothing to distinguish themselves. The land grab is over, it's about who can sign what partnerships (people talked about Metcalfe's law with Whatsapp, but there's something similar at play here now - how can we partner with to bring massive numbers of consumers to our service? The landscape changes after Nokia and BOinc fucked that one up, but it won't be long before operators/ISPs try to get back in that game as partners rather than providers...)

CURATION! DISCOVERY! ACCESS! It's boring as hell. How do you announce something and get some press attention? - buy something that IS exciting!

We're looking at a race to the bottom.

Spotify have two or three options with The Echonest; leave it as it is and let it power their competitors discovery engines; take it in house, shut it down for everyone else, and steal a brief competitive march on the other guys; absorb it, keep it as it is, but charge shitloads for the API to other services, generating a real (non-consumer) revenue stream for the company. Any of these, though, it's just sad.

Music streaming is not innovation - it's reached the point that it is just another commoditised service now, and very soon we'll be at the stage that consumers just don't care where their music comes from; it will just be another bundled offering from infrastructure services (mobile, TV, ISP), or businesses like Netflix and Amazon, who are destroying conventional content payment models from the outside in. iTunes Radio, anyone? iOS carplay launched ONLY with audio partners, and iTunes want to steal that market 100%.

Absolutely and without doubt, when Amazon Prime bundles in a streaming service, I will cancel my existing streaming provider contract - because, unlike Lovefilm vs Netflix, there is absolutely no catalogue differentiation. If you're streaming music, you stream ALL the music, not a bit of it - and that is the way services have been built, not least because of the way the whole digital supply chain in music works. You can't have a BIT of the catalogue - you have all of it. The labels (hello, TV & film studios - wake up!) saw this very early on (or, at least, very early on in this part of the emerging narrative) - the more people who supply their content, the better, and the more money they and the rights holders make.

There are a few really exciting companies for whom The Echonest would have been a perfect target - people with brilliantly complementary data sets that could dovetail with their business. To sell out to an uncertain-futured company like Spotify is just sad.

Sigh.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#52
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on a project where I'm building my own 'Echo Nest' type of API to feed it. I didn't want to rely on their API since I felt I could offer something better/different. With it, I have been slowly putting together a new music discovery site ( http://www.musicplexer.com ) It's extremely incomplete at the time, but I'm still building the API the hard way: scraping, analyzing the data, connecting the diffe…

Does Echo Nest have any patents in the area of analysis? That would be my concern about this deal. Not just for you, but for the whole area. I hope this doesn't become more grist for our borked software patent system, wherein this deal mostly benefits only West Texas lawyers and their car dealers and realtors.

http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/TheEchoNestCorporation....

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#53

This frightens me. I'm a big Rdio fan and they use Echo Nest as their backend. Has Spotify just found a way to secretly shut them down?

Spotify has said they'll honour all standing business arrangements, so I imagine Rdio will have time to move to another provider or try and bring it in house.

"We have a rolling one-year contract with you. It's just been renegotiated..."

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#54
post #10
post #8

Spotify and similar disservices mean death to a culture of music. Like Carthage, it is my opinion that Spotify and the music /industry/ founded on copy-theft must be burned down.

Spotify and similar disservices mean death to a culture of music. Care to expand on what you mean by that? I'll agree with you that the music industry is deeply messed up, but it has been for a very long time. If anything services like Spotify will allow artists to abandon parasitic record labels and release material by themselves.

People halo around the most visible artists. The various services promote the most popular artists, because that's what their audience wants. As the model shifts from a lean forward (I buy music that I like, so that I can listen to it) to a lean back (curated, data/discovery) model the top line hook for fairly un-engaged music consumers means that they discover less new music and hear more of what they expect to hear. Which is exactly what happened to radio, for exactly the same commercial reasons, over the past couple of decades.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#55

I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment. It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echones…

That was quite the skewering.

Please [/shamelessplug] critique the potential of http://spawnsong.com as a music streaming service.

Elon Musk instructed me to elicit bad feedback, and man, do you know how to give it.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#56

I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment. It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echones…

I, for one, am ecstatic. I started a project to catalogue every single live music event on the planet, no matter how small or big. That's one less ogre in the way. Enjoy your new leashes, Echo Nest.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Echo Nest have any patents in the area of analysis? That would be my concern about this deal. Not just for you, but for the whole area. I hope this doesn't become more grist for our borked software patent system, wherein this deal mostly benefits only West Texas lawyers and their car dealers and realtors.

http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/TheEchoNestCorporation....

That's an unfortunate-sounding lists of patents.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#58

I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment. It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echones…

That was quite the skewering. Please [/shamelessplug] critique the potential of http://spawnsong.com as a music streaming service. Elon Musk instructed me to elicit bad feedback, and man, do you know how to give it.

It's a nice demo. I struggle to see why anyone beyond you, the artist, and a few hardcore fans would care though.

Like I said above, streaming is boring, it's a commodity service. Recommendation and curation are part and parcel of it; that's all you're doing, with a twist. The Echonest drove that. Do something else in music. Something that actually matters. And ideally makes us all BETTER.

And quite apart from all of that, your $1600 headphones are about as good as the bargain basement DAC in your run-of-the-mill laptop, for the average punter. So don't give them away to someone who just doesn't care.

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#59

I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment. It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echones…

That was quite the skewering. Please [/shamelessplug] critique the potential of http://spawnsong.com as a music streaming service. Elon Musk instructed me to elicit bad feedback, and man, do you know how to give it.

^^^Nice way to seize the moment. Interesting website concept. Just a suggestion for the homepage: since the top header is so tall, how about moving the play song links from the bottom of each song-artwork to be a universal play symbol (arrow) overtop the artwork, maybe increasing from translucent to full opacity upon hovering, noting contrast issues with relevant artwork. NOTE: at my 1080p pc monitor and font size settings I dont even see the song title 'above the screen's fold', so you may even want to think about that as well, maybe the same solution as the playbutton using overlay and opacity settings. It is a cool header bg though so dont mess with that, except maybe moving the search box onto it since having it below eats vertical space from the song listings as well.

Last point/question: I'm assuming the $1600 headphone giveaway is for the musicians, not listeners. Good growth tactic but maybe make it more clear OR offer something to listeners as well. I don't know much about the song development process market but maybe implement or communicate something about whats expected/gained from listeners for improving the music (assuming you actually want to help musicians rather than eat their souls lol)

EDIT: minor ui change to song pages: move everything on the separate login page as an embedded form on song pages (above the comments). No need to ask me to click and hope you've integrated with my favorite 3rd party.

EDIT2; Startup based advice: you might want to look into the business model of that site that advertised on thepiratebay using popups autoplaying (fairly decent) music videos of indie artists competing for a prize. Cant remember the name or find it on google, maybe it shutdown? Had a one wordish name derivied from video, definitely started with a V

Re: Spotify acquires The Echo Nest to build a better music discovery engine

#60

I think this is a disaster. It's an awful, hideous, stupid (stupid for the wider industry) defensive acquisition on Spotify's part, paid for, presumably largely, by stock - I doubt they really have the cash to buy companies of the scale of The Echonest, who have taken close to $30m in investment. It destroys value in The Echonest - and every other non-consumer-facing music service out there. The beauty of The Echones…

I, for one, am ecstatic. I started a project to catalogue every single live music event on the planet, no matter how small or big. That's one less ogre in the way. Enjoy your new leashes, Echo Nest.

Heh, leashes - yes!

And now give us the link to your ambitious sounding project.

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