If there is is evidence it will be accepted for review, if not it will be rejected..... simple.
TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
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Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#12This isn't particularly new -- the theory has been around for more than 60 years.
Anthropologists certainly are aware of the theory. It comes up all the time in student papers and discussions. My first encounter with it was when I was a grad student TAing Anthro 1.
There does not seem to be any evidence in the fossil record that supports the theory.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#13Can I flag this for being stupid? OK I am instead going to use it as a teaching moment. Remember hacker news disease? The symptom of having a strong opinion on topics you really shouldn't be having an opinion on? OK so if you find yourself even remotely agreeing with the Aquatic Ape theory, do yourself a favor and research the counter evidence, it's easy to find and obvious enough to convince yourself. It's just a sh…
First of all, this theory is not stupid.
Humans belong to a small number of animal groups that display vocal learning.
Vocal Learning Animals have a special “language” gene ( FoxP2 ), that gives them the ability to learn and imitate sounds they hear.
Among mammals only Dolphins, Whales, Seals, Elephants and Humans have FoxP2 gene. All of them are aquatic animals or have aquatic ancestors.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#14Can I flag this for being stupid? OK I am instead going to use it as a teaching moment. Remember hacker news disease? The symptom of having a strong opinion on topics you really shouldn't be having an opinion on? OK so if you find yourself even remotely agreeing with the Aquatic Ape theory, do yourself a favor and research the counter evidence, it's easy to find and obvious enough to convince yourself. It's just a sh…
First of all, this theory is not stupid. Humans belong to a small number of animal groups that display vocal learning. Vocal Learning Animals have a special “language” gene ( FoxP2 ), that gives them the ability to learn and imitate sounds they hear. Among mammals only Dolphins, Whales, Seals, Elephants and Humans have FoxP2 gene. All of them are aquatic animals or have aquatic ancestors.
I think the notion of a (single) gene giving the ability to learn is already flawed.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, this theory is not stupid. Humans belong to a small number of animal groups that display vocal learning. Vocal Learning Animals have a special “language” gene ( FoxP2 ), that gives them the ability to learn and imitate sounds they hear. Among mammals only Dolphins, Whales, Seals, Elephants and Humans have FoxP2 gene. All of them are aquatic animals or have aquatic ancestors.
I think the notion of a (single) gene giving the ability to learn is already flawed.
People with mutation in this single gene lose the ability for vocal learning and speech. How do you explain that?
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the notion of a (single) gene giving the ability to learn is already flawed.
People with mutation in this single gene lose the ability for vocal learning and speech. How do you explain that?
I would guess it is responsible for one crucial part for the "speech apparatus", but that doesn't make it the speed apparatus. A car without the ignition loses the ability to drive, yet the ignition hardly seems the most important part in the car.
I feel the same uneasyness when I hear "hormone X is the cause of ability Y" - sure, maybe if Hormone X is missing, ability Y is missing. But Hormone X does not manufacture Y, it is just a messenger that makes something else produce Y. Likewise I suspect speech is possible because of the combined effects of several genes. If one is missing, maybe the system fails - but perhaps it could be replaced with something else, given time.
Sorry, it is late, I feel unable to express myself more clearly atm.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
As has been nearly every major scientific discovery since they very dawn of science itself.
Actually, within the scientific community the aquatic ape theory is about as controversial as intelligent design. It never had any supporting evidence. See http://www.aquaticape.org/
Just like any other theory which is trying to explain why have humans evolved so differently than just about any other mammal species.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no opinion in particular about this idea, but if this was a teaching moment, seems like a good time to include a link to your easy-to-find counter evidence, rather than name-calling the theory "stupid."
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=735181
That site proves nothing. It just counteracts AAT "claims" with "facts" not backed with too much hard evidence.
The problem with the original AAT is that it piles together everything and the kitchen sink if there might be drawn a most remote connection between it and water. It's very easy to dismiss the theory as it was set -- but some individual aspects of it have a lot of merit, and even more mainstream anthropologists have started to seriously consider a possibility of an "aquatic" phase in human evolution. Our ancestors were probably never fully "aquatic", but were likely used to wading in shallow pools and similar bodies of water.
There is one thing we can be pretty certain when it comes to human evolution: at one point in time, our ancestors had no need for the natural protecting covering on their bodies (fur, which is used as protection from all kinds of hazards, including heat, cold, venom etc), so they lost it. The reason is almost certainly that their environment has somehow provided them with equivalent protection, and once they lost that protection they had to substitute it with some other covering, and this is how clothing was invented.
And the only natural protection we know of are water and earth. Ponder on that next time you'll be enjoying a dip in the pool.
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
People with mutation in this single gene lose the ability for vocal learning and speech. How do you explain that?
I would guess it is responsible for one crucial part for the "speech apparatus", but that doesn't make it the speed apparatus. A car without the ignition loses the ability to drive, yet the ignition hardly seems the most important part in the car. I feel the same uneasyness when I hear "hormone X is the cause of ability Y" - sure, maybe if Hormone X is missing, ability Y is missing. But Hormone X does not manufacture…
An ignition indicates that the car has an internal combustion engine.
The speech-enabling gene FOXP2 indicates that there are brain circuits that make vocal learning possible.
The question is why this gene is present in aquatic mammals and is absent in terrestrial apes
Re: TED Talk: Elaine Morgan says we evolved from Aquatic Apes.
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=735181
That site proves nothing. It just counteracts AAT "claims" with "facts" not backed with too much hard evidence. The problem with the original AAT is that it piles together everything and the kitchen sink if there might be drawn a most remote connection between it and water. It's very easy to dismiss the theory as it was set -- but some individual aspects of it have a lot of merit, and even more mainstream anthropolog…
but were likely used to wading in shallow pools and similar bodies of water
That's not disputed. There's food in them shallow pools and there's plentiful evidence of people eating tons of shellfish etc, all around the world. This is also indisputably NOT an aquatic ape. The swimming macaques in the Ganges delta aren't aquatic apes. They are land monkeys who can and do swim and search for food under water. Tigers swim, they are not aquatic cats. Elephants can swim for miles, and lots and lots of other land animals can and do swim a lot. But that still leaves them far, far short of being aquatic animals.
The reason is almost certainly that their environment has somehow provided them with equivalent protection
Really? Fur protects us from cold and venom but water replaces that protection? There's no other reason to lose the fur? Like parasites, and a tropical climate, and animal skins a.k.a. clothing? Oh wait, you say that clothing came after we lost the protection of water, because the world ran out of water?
Yes next time I jump in the pool and feel the cold water, I'll think boy I sure with I was fury like an otter.