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LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

nytimes.com

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Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#171

Post by Nursie »

benched wrote: post #64
Nursie wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power. So please describe what these effects would be? And please don't think when I talk about it inducing a false sense of the profound that I speak from ignorance or inexperience.

Yes, we'll compress it into a few sentences in a Hacker News comment, to make it as easy as possible to trivialize via verbal argument. The very idea that you can discriminate true and "false" senses of the cosmic, for anybody, says a lot about where you're speaking from.

I'm sorry, but if you come back from a trip convinced of many of the things I've seen and heard people decide when on trips... well let me just say that some of these great and profound realisations are just nonsense when looked at in the cold light of day later.

I'm absolutely not criticising anyone's experience of LSD, but I'm not sure either why you refuse to contemplate that there could an inebriant and hallucinogenic component to acid that can result in just as much drivel as you get from a drunk.

If every experience you've ever had was a deep shamanic awakening that taught you about yourself and the universe then that's aweseom for you. 99% of the use of acid I've ever seen was more about giggling, talking bullshit and staring at the pretty colours.

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#172

Post by Nursie »

rpearl wrote: post #98
Nursie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly? Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple. As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about…

Here. I will articulate it. Each one of us is an unbroken chain of physical interactions since the beginning. There is no universe without conscious subjective experience; there is no conscious subjective experience without the universe. Life--conscious, experiential, intelligent life--is fundamentally intertwined with existence and you cannot have one without the other. The universe as a fundamental process is one t…

Awesome.

Now, how does that change anything?

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#173

Post by Nursie »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #99
Nursie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions. >> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there. My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change…

"Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple." I can't speak to your experience on LSD, but for me LSD removes boundaries in my mind and provokes me to realize that we humans are way more similar than we are different. In fact, the same goes for o…

>> How does LSD affect you?

In a vast variety of different ways depending on dose, set and setting etc.

I understand your realisation, I do. But I'm not seeing how it would be world-changing if more people were allowed to take it because I know people whose LSD experience was (repeatedly) "sit in the corner of a nightclub with wide eyes and a grin".

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#174

Post by sar9 »

rplnt wrote: post #146
junto wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. DMT is something I recommend everyone and nobody should try. The experience was extremely weird. It was like the filters that my brain uses so that it can adequately process the 'live stream' from all my senses got switched off. I was subjected to to the 'live stream' in its full bit rate. I revelled in it for a while but eventually the wave was so huge that my brain shut down. No ego whilst I w…

> DMT is something I recommend everyone and nobody should try. This fits Salvia as well. Salvia Divinorum, for those who don't know, is another psychedelic. This time it's naturally occurring (the Salvinorin A is strongest natural hallucinogen) and doesn't smell like burnt rubber with ramen noodles. As with everything else (except programming), study before use.

Salvia often has an extremely negative feeling associated with it. The initial smoking of DMT can be uncomfortable but with a proper dosage it typically causes a very positive feeling but not in the sense of any stimulant. It feels natural, loving and you can forget you have a body.

Salvia can have horrendous negative feelings. A smaller dosage of DMT can produce slight anxiety. Of course, these are anecdotal experiences but I'd warn against using salvia.

I would caution against Ayahuasca too as it's intense, last hours and can be very negative unlike smoking DMT.

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#175

Post by sar9 »

bennyg wrote: post #168
sizzle wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for the reply, you seem knowledgeable about chemicals. Thoughts on DMT and Mescaline?

Thanks, I only have slight reading knowledge of the subjects (mostly Wikipedia, then following the sources at the end of the page). I've never done DMT or Mescaline though they seem fairly similar in affect, but extremely different in intensity and duration. My days with psychedelics have been few and far between for a while, though I'm sure there are others on here who have experimented heavily with these. I recomme…

I disagree that mescaline or any psychedelic is similar to DMT. Perhaps in a sensory deprivation tank. But it's not a question of intensity. DMT often lasts 10-20 minutes and has a near undeniable effect that you just traveled to another dimension. In my opinion, taking other psychedelics will just distort your environment.

DMT is nearly identical to serotonin and tryptophan, and similar to psilocybin and mesclaine. Whatever it does to the brain, it's not a typical effect of any other drug I'm aware of.

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#176

Post by sizzle »

sar9 wrote: post #175
bennyg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I only have slight reading knowledge of the subjects (mostly Wikipedia, then following the sources at the end of the page). I've never done DMT or Mescaline though they seem fairly similar in affect, but extremely different in intensity and duration. My days with psychedelics have been few and far between for a while, though I'm sure there are others on here who have experimented heavily with these. I recomme…

I disagree that mescaline or any psychedelic is similar to DMT. Perhaps in a sensory deprivation tank. But it's not a question of intensity. DMT often lasts 10-20 minutes and has a near undeniable effect that you just traveled to another dimension. In my opinion, taking other psychedelics will just distort your environment. DMT is nearly identical to serotonin and tryptophan, and similar to psilocybin and mesclaine.…

I asked because a friend of mine told me his experience felt like he was "watching his body from up above in the universe" and that it felt like he was stuck in a nightmare for a week.

seriously scared me from any desire to try.

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#177

Post by kpennell »

Nursie wrote: post #170
epsylon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can certainly induce a sense of the profound but I'm not sure they actually produce profundity. What's the difference?

Actual profound thought (to me) would be a meaningful realisation about yourself or the universe around you. LSD can make you feel this moment of profound realisation about things which are absolute nonsense. This cheese is my brother, we'd all be at peace if everyone wore purple, god is a piece of bread with butter on both sides. When on acid these sorts of things can feel (subjectively) like the most awesome discov…

I don't agree but you made me laugh

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#178

Post by kpennell »

today wrote: post #20
EC1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before entering the corporate work place I never touched anything. Once my one coworker started talking about it, the whole chain revealed itself, now it's super social to go smoke a joint with my bosses after work and have a beer, I love it. I wonder how much I'm actually destroying my health by smoking weed every day, drinking coffee, and having some alcohol at least in a minor capacity. I feel as if the emotional/…

I thought I had things under control with weed. Gradually I realised I was using it to cope with chronic depression due to an earlier personal tragedy. Weed probably is great when things are actually in order in your life, but you may be losing contact with reality precisely because it makes it possible to enjoy yourself the entire time. I think you have to be very mindful of that. It's a painful processes, turning t…

nice comment

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#179

Post by sar9 »

sizzle wrote: post #176
sar9 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that mescaline or any psychedelic is similar to DMT. Perhaps in a sensory deprivation tank. But it's not a question of intensity. DMT often lasts 10-20 minutes and has a near undeniable effect that you just traveled to another dimension. In my opinion, taking other psychedelics will just distort your environment. DMT is nearly identical to serotonin and tryptophan, and similar to psilocybin and mesclaine.…

I asked because a friend of mine told me his experience felt like he was "watching his body from up above in the universe" and that it felt like he was stuck in a nightmare for a week. seriously scared me from any desire to try.

One of the greatest risks is integration issues. Trying to square your experience with everyday life. I have experimented with DMT approximately 20 times over many years. It feels like skydiving through time and dimensions.

After 20 minutes you feel 90% normal. It's like having the most intense profound dream. You can have a fleeting sensation of wanting to return to the experience. But it is not addictive in my opinion.

Joe Rogan's given some eloquent descriptions of it. When he says it's like meeting God in a universe full of love, he's being literal. It feels natural. There's a sensation of an intelligence understanding force communicating with you. Making sense of it can be extremely challenging. I'd caution against doing it if you have any hesitation.

Re: LSD, Reconsidered for Therapy

#180

Post by sizzle »

sar9 wrote: post #179
sizzle wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked because a friend of mine told me his experience felt like he was "watching his body from up above in the universe" and that it felt like he was stuck in a nightmare for a week. seriously scared me from any desire to try.

One of the greatest risks is integration issues. Trying to square your experience with everyday life. I have experimented with DMT approximately 20 times over many years. It feels like skydiving through time and dimensions. After 20 minutes you feel 90% normal. It's like having the most intense profound dream. You can have a fleeting sensation of wanting to return to the experience. But it is not addictive in my opin…

wow, thank you for the personal anecdote.

If you care to respond, were you aware of your surroundings/your body/your existence, or did everything not matter in the moment?

Is there any sense of time progression? Do you remember everything right after?

Can you hear any sounds from the environment you are in? (tv, radio etc)

It seems like this is something you would want to try only after being at a point in life where you are stable, mentally (emotionally), and physically (health).

Such a fascinating topic, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

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