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Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

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Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#31

Post by gommm »

The problem is that in the example given, the two problems framed in term of loss and in term of gain are not equivalent. Depending on how much time the student has to consider the question, he might not see from: - If you choose Medicine A, 400,000 people will die. If you choose Medicine B, there is a 33.3% chance that no one will die and a 66.6% chance that 600,000 will die.

That in the case of medecine B, there's a 66% that the result (600,000 people dying) is equivalent to the result of not taking any medicine.

Whereas when the problem is framed in term of gain, it's quite clear by the phrasing "66.6% chance that no one will be saved.".

That's the problem with this kind of questionnaire, and it's compounded by the fact that they do not provide the Korean/Japanese/French version of the questionnaire they used.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#32

Post by vacri »

enra wrote: post #19
emilga wrote: post #14

It's the same thing with foreign units of measurement (in, ft, F, stones, etc.). Although I know there is a one-to-one mapping between meters and feet, I only grok a measurement given in meters. There's probably some conditioning behind this: every day you are reminded that a pack of salami is 200g, while a pack of flour is 1kg, and so on ... so that for each measurement you just access your library of memories that…

Coming from the metric systems, I've been starting to learn the US measurements, eg. I have memories and know how much is "a pound of meat". I still don't get cups or the fluid measurements though, except that 12 oz a beer bottle and 16 oz is a medium soda bottle (medium in European terms).

Coming from a country that uses litres and millilitres, European centilitre paper cups just look plain weird. It's certainly the most appropriate unit for the task, but I'm just not used to it.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#33

Post by glymor »

It's worth noting here that they demonstrated this effect with language learners i.e. it's very likely that the students had to labouriously work out the foreign language questions.

Basically they've demonstrated that if people spend a lot more time on a question they answer less emotionally (which seems like it would be true independent of the language).

If they can demonstrate the effect still holds with 2nd language speakers with native level proficiency then this would be a lot more interesting result.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#34

Post by tesmar2 »

> Nelson Mandela was an extraordinary man

Apartheid should have ended without violence.

Mandela was a radical communist who committed 156 acts of terrorism and never denounced violence. The economy and currency of South Africa crashed under Mandela. Unemployment went up and income went down. Apartheid was a terrible system but more people have been murdered every year since Mandela's presidency than before. There's more but you get the idea.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#35

Post by saraid216 »

001sky wrote: post #25
cortesoft wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding. Medicine A will always save 200,000 people, with 400,000 dying. Medicine B will save all 600,000 people 33.3% of the time, but everyone will die 66% of the time. The expected number of deaths (the 'expected value' in game theory) is the same for both cases (200,000). Medicine A is easy to calculate (200,000 * 1.00 = 200,000). For Medicine B, the calculation is 600,000 * 0.33 + 0 * 0.…

The word "all" as a modifier to 600k is not in the text; see for eg: And here is the problem framed in terms of gains: If you choose Medicine A, 200,000 people will be saved. If you choose Medicine B, there is a 33.3% chance that 600,000 people will be saved and a 66.6% chance that no one will be saved. Which medicine do you choose? Although the number of certain deaths is the same in both versions of the problem, pe…

The "Asian Disease problem" is a very standard experimental psychology/economics problem. It's alternatively phrased as this: "Would you like receive 4 dollars, or would you like a 40% chance to receive 10 dollars?"

The entire article is just a layer over this showing the supposed effects of asking the question in a foreign language (other comments have explained the likely problems of the experiment), and then another layer over that wrapping it in "this is totally relevant to you because Madiba".

I mean, yeah. Mandela was right. But not because of the foreign language effect.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#36

Post by colechristensen »

yongjik wrote: post #16

Out of curiosity, just checked the referenced paper[1] and there is no Korean/Japanese/French version of the questionnaire they used. It's disappointing. We all know these kinds of polls can be easily gamed by subtle (or not-so-subtle) phrasing, and without the questions actually used, I have no way of knowing if the "Foreign Language Effect" actually exists or if their choice of words in the translation affected the…

Psychology studies are (in my general opinion) notoriously poor science to the point that the vast majority of them are worthless fluff useful only for sensational headlines.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#37

Post by Symmetry »

eschaton wrote: post #6
uuu77 wrote: post #2

Mandela was a terrorist. What's next, 'Hitler was right'?

You misspelled "freedom fighter" and deserve downvotes for attempting to shut down discussion with a bogus analogy.

Umkhonto we Sizwe did go to hell after he was imprisoned and become a terrorist organization, but it's hard to blame someone locked up in prison for that. I don't see any standard by which you could claim Mandela was a terrorist, which wouldn't also sweep up some of America's founders.

Mandela was no Gandhi, no saint. He resorted to discriminate violence when otherwise thwarted in fighting against injustice. But given them sum of his life I would aspire to be as humane a person as he was.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#38

Post by bittercynic »

cortesoft wrote: post #23
spuz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that the wording and the numbers chosen by the experimenters are intended to create two equivelent sitations, but the fact is, they do not. The sentence: "If you choose Medicine A, 400,000 people will die." Tells you that 400k people will die if you choose medicine A. It says nothing about what will happen to the remaining 200k. I believe it is illogical to assume that the sentence implies the remaining…

I understand your point in terms of formal logic (that saying 400k people will die does not necessitate that the other 200k can't also die). However, the initial sentence that starts the experiment is "Recently, a dangerous new disease has been going around. Without medicine, 600,000 people will die from it. In order to save these people, two types of medicine are being made." When you follow that by saying "If you c…

Are you referring to this? "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." (It's a lot funnier when delivered with good timing than when you read it.)

His comedy was very hit-and-miss, but some of it was spectacularly funny.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#39

Post by nraynaud »

rytis wrote: post #21

So just extrapolating on this example - would the best results in any negotiations be achieved when both parties speak a language that is foreign to both of them? In that case both are taking more rational decisions, ignoring the emotional "burden" than their native language puts on them.

for a completely different reason I would say yes. For lack of fine vocabulary to convey subtle things, I guess it's harder to spin things in a certain way, more basic word->more basic meaning and less implied thing.

Re: Mandela was right: the Foreign Language Effect

#40

Post by bemmu »

glymor wrote: post #33

It's worth noting here that they demonstrated this effect with language learners i.e. it's very likely that the students had to labouriously work out the foreign language questions. Basically they've demonstrated that if people spend a lot more time on a question they answer less emotionally (which seems like it would be true independent of the language). If they can demonstrate the effect still holds with 2nd langua…

It would be interesting to present the question in ROT13, have participants work out the question and then answer it.
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