Is there any legal way to make a license plate not easily photographable, perhaps with a bright led?
A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
111–120 of 148 posts
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how quantity suddenly transforms a permitted thing into a forbidden one. If I don't need your permission to look at your car's licence plate on a public street and write down when and where I saw it, or simply take a photo of said licence plate (as photos currently include timestamp+location) - then the situation doesn't change in any way and I still don't need your permission even if I did the same for a…
The law has thousands of examples of quantity turning permitted things into forbidden ones (or at least regulated ones, which is probably more the case here). This is in no way a unique restriction. For example: 1) If someone glances in your window as they walk by your house, that's fine. If they stand there all day, they're probably guilty of stalking, a crime. 2) If one person is holding a protest sign in front of…
Okay, this is a very valid point that laws can and make a distinction based on quantity.
However, in this point no such distinction has been made, and thus they should be treated equally. There is clear law on the "low quantity" case, and no distinct law on the "high quantity" case - so the same principles should be applied even for thousandfold or millionfold increases unless/until the lawmakers (not the courts) draw a line somewhere.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
The scan of the license plan is not really the issue, it's the collecting of the scan, tagging it with GPS, and aggregating the scan into large, permanent databases that can be accessed by both government and private corporations. If all you do is scan a plate and display "car payments past due", or discard the scan if the car is not wanted, it's not all that different from a human looking for a car. But these folks…
I don't see how quantity suddenly transforms a permitted thing into a forbidden one. If I don't need your permission to look at your car's licence plate on a public street and write down when and where I saw it, or simply take a photo of said licence plate (as photos currently include timestamp+location) - then the situation doesn't change in any way and I still don't need your permission even if I did the same for a…
A very pertinent, technological example, for the unconvinced: copying one street from google maps, versus mass-scraping entire locations.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the same way an iphone can be good enough for your wedding photos? These are high quality cameras, that have to work in large range of weather and lighting conditions. This cost might also include the software to OCR and store the details.
Parent's point was valid though, I can't imagine these devices to cost more than $170 in a couple of years, making this discussion quite relevant.
Until the cost of grinding glass comes way down, this won't be true.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
The law has thousands of examples of quantity turning permitted things into forbidden ones (or at least regulated ones, which is probably more the case here). This is in no way a unique restriction. For example: 1) If someone glances in your window as they walk by your house, that's fine. If they stand there all day, they're probably guilty of stalking, a crime. 2) If one person is holding a protest sign in front of…
Okay, this is a very valid point that laws can and make a distinction based on quantity. However, in this point no such distinction has been made, and thus they should be treated equally. There is clear law on the "low quantity" case, and no distinct law on the "high quantity" case - so the same principles should be applied even for thousandfold or millionfold increases unless/until the lawmakers (not the courts) dra…
I totally agree. I think the point most people are trying to make here is not that this _is_ illegal, but that it should be made illegal.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#116Would be awesome if someone reverse-engineer it: an app that alerts you when a repo truck is around the corner. Imagine all those pissed off truck owners being angry that their publicly available information has been scanned and delivered via alert system to someone trying to hide from a repo truck.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
The scan of the license plan is not really the issue, it's the collecting of the scan, tagging it with GPS, and aggregating the scan into large, permanent databases that can be accessed by both government and private corporations. If all you do is scan a plate and display "car payments past due", or discard the scan if the car is not wanted, it's not all that different from a human looking for a car. But these folks…
Is it legal or even possible to prevent these scanning devices from working by having say a ring of infrared LED's shining on your license plate to prevent a camera from being able to capture it?
I'd say just cover the end of your driveway in mud, and 'accidentally' back up as fast as you can.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
The scan of the license plan is not really the issue, it's the collecting of the scan, tagging it with GPS, and aggregating the scan into large, permanent databases that can be accessed by both government and private corporations. If all you do is scan a plate and display "car payments past due", or discard the scan if the car is not wanted, it's not all that different from a human looking for a car. But these folks…
Is it legal or even possible to prevent these scanning devices from working by having say a ring of infrared LED's shining on your license plate to prevent a camera from being able to capture it?
I believe that some states have laws against devices used to obscure your plate to cameras, but I am not sure about that.
If not, that trick would only work on shitty cameras for so long, before manufacturers of these scanners wizened up.
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#119I'm curious - how exactly would one refute the following argument put forth by data brokers and repo agents? > But Digital Recognition and other so-called “data brokers” who collect plate scans are fighting Hecht’s bill, arguing that repo agents are not invading privacy when they scan a license plate, which is available for all to see. The data brokers do not disclose the owner of the plates, they point out, though…
The scan of the license plan is not really the issue, it's the collecting of the scan, tagging it with GPS, and aggregating the scan into large, permanent databases that can be accessed by both government and private corporations. If all you do is scan a plate and display "car payments past due", or discard the scan if the car is not wanted, it's not all that different from a human looking for a car. But these folks…
I'm not thrilled about this, but a license plate in public view is free for anyone to do whatever they want with.
The argument against doing this is exactly the same as the argument against people scraping public data. It's something a human could do manually, but now that its automated and much more intense in volume, suddenly its wrong.
I really, really don't like it, but that's probably why many people thought that license plates and car registrations were bad things when they were first introduced.
From a financial perspective, this technology, shitty as it is, probably saves us all money on our car payments. Tracking down pieces of shit who default on car loans? I'm all for it. (Note: If you can't afford your car payment, you are contacted and can easily make arrangements to hand the vehicle over to the bank. If you don't do this, you are a thief who is making it that much harder and more expensive for another low-income person to buy a vehicle.)
Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
The scan of the license plan is not really the issue, it's the collecting of the scan, tagging it with GPS, and aggregating the scan into large, permanent databases that can be accessed by both government and private corporations. If all you do is scan a plate and display "car payments past due", or discard the scan if the car is not wanted, it's not all that different from a human looking for a car. But these folks…
I think the real interesting thing about this isn't any of these questions but really, much like with the internet, when does an IP become a person (or in this example, when does a license plate become a person)? Is there a legal distinction? As I understood it, the reason you don't lose points on your license if you get caught by a speed camera in an automated fashion, is because technically, legally, they have to p…
Many of the people that you could conceivably want to be protected from would not particularly care about the possibility of the car being driven by other people. Furthermore, in many situations, it is likely that the GPS-tagged data could be combined with other data, such as employment history, to greatly disambiguate the actual driver of the car at the time.